Santo Domingo.- The Dominican government and the electricity sector signed an agreement on Tuesday which forsees the investment of US$460 million in financing the electricity
companies (Edes) from 2009 to 2012.
The decision was taken during a meeting headed by President Leonel Fernandez at
the State power companies (CDEEE) headquarters.
CDEEE vice president Radhames Segura said the government will
address the situation of the country's energy service and promised it’s trying to ease the blackouts. He noted the government has pledged to
invest US$100 million in 2009, US$100 million in 2010, US$130 million in 2011 and US$130
million in 2012.
For this investment the government has the backing of US$130 million from the
World Bank, the Inter-American Development Bank and the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC)
From: United States Virgin Islands, Christiansted.from the bar at the Comanche
Here we go again
Written by: buenoha, 3 Sep 2008 11:36 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
The media should be more concrete as to what the plans entail. Big amounts of money do not solve anything if they are misinvested. The problem should be dealt with strategically. I would like to see what they are going to do with the money, i.e., in what ways they are going to use it for solving the problem and what their specific targets are.
Written by: juanb, 3 Sep 2008 11:48 AM
From: Dominican Republic
This is the same **** (Segura) who three or four weeks ago was telling us that there were no problems in the electrical sector. It is so obvious that this guy is incompetent. He was probably out celebrating this loan, as though he had won Lotto. I wonder what percentage of the money borrowed ever goes towards solving the scandalous condition of our power supply.
I am starting to fault the media as well. Are they also on the take? How come no reporter or news supplier is willing to question the government as to what is really going on in our country.
Written by: Belial, 3 Sep 2008 12:29 PM
From: United States, Texas
CDEEE is a holding company that brings together all government-owned generation, transmission and distribution companies and associated government programs in the DR.
It consists of:
the Hydroelectricity Generation Company (only 14% of generation)
the Electricity Transmission Company
the Rural and Suburban Electrification Unit
the Blackout Reduction Program
50% of the North Distribution Company, EdeNorte;
50% of the South Distribution Company, EdeSur; and
the 50% government holding of the East Distribution Company, EdeEste.
[EdeNorte and EdeSur are entirely government-owned, the remaining 50% shares being held by the government's Enterprise Trust Fund (FONPER). ]
EdeEste is a mixed private-public company
oooo
There's no way of telling whether the money will be generation or transmission/distribution oriented.
The basic problem is grossly inadequate generation palmed-off as inefficient transmission/distribution.
Written by: juanb, 3 Sep 2008 12:43 PM
From: Dominican Republic
The other problem is that there used to be one board of directors, and now there are four. In addition the number of employees has quadrupled. No better service, just more people feeding off the business. And how about collecting from those receiving power? I would love to hear someone from the electric sector explain to me why the stealing of power continues unabated.
Written by: Belial, 3 Sep 2008 12:44 PM
From: United States, Texas
The bourgeoisie, both foreign and domestic, ... outside of the state ... owns and mismanages about 86% of the generation sector of the electricity industry and this greedy class of foreigners and compradors doesn't want to "balance," not to mention, produce a surplus of supply over demand for energy in the DR, fearing adverse effects of prices and rates.
Unless the state steps in and increases the supply of energy, it's going to be tough going.
The state's generation is mostly from water in the dams. The foreign bourgeoisie in the energy sector wants the state to give the dams away to the foreign element of the bourgeoisie which too incompetent and devious to generate juice from burning oil.
From: Canada
Same ol, same ol.
CDEEE execs probably have their eyes on a nice piece of land and this "loan" will provide the means for them to build their new mansions.
Written by: anthonyC, 3 Sep 2008 4:08 PM
From: United States
Bellyache said;
"The basic problem is grossly inadequate generation palmed-off as inefficient transmission/distribution."
The real problem is that the Energy companies are owned and run by the Government.
The Only solution is PRIVATISE!!!!
Written by: Belial, 3 Sep 2008 5:23 PM
From: United States, Texas
"The Dominican government and the electricity sector signed an agreement on Tuesday which forsees the investment of US$460 million in financing the electricity companies (Edes) from 2009 to 2012," the DT reports, as I take a second and closer look at the article.
0000
Hmm.
Taking a second look.
"In financing the electricity companies (Edes) from 2009 to 2012," the article says.
EdeNorte, EdeSur, and Edeeste are distribution companies.
So, the US$460 million is really for the distribution sector, even though the distributors have grossly inadequate supply of generated electricity to distribute.
Well, the distributors have serious problems, too; so perhaps the 460 will help. But even if the 460 gets rid of all the distribution problems, the distributors still face the problem of a grossly inadequate supply.
Written by: Belial, 3 Sep 2008 5:30 PM
From: United States, Texas
"The Dominican government and the electricity sector signed an agreement on Tuesday which forsees the investment of US$460 million in financing the electricity companies (Edes) from 2009 to 2012," the DT reports, as I take a second and closer look at the article."
0000
"The Dominican government and the electricity sector," the DT reports.
Hmm.
The state surely didn't mean the state and itself.
So, the state meant the "Dominican government" and the bourgeoisie in the private sector or, in other words, the privately-dominated generation sector of the electrical industry came up with the idea for the 460 for the defamed distributors.
Wait a minute.
"What is this," as the great Edwin Hawkins sang.
Written by: Belial, 3 Sep 2008 5:34 PM
From: United States, Texas
Well, perhaps, the state will find money for generation as well as distribution, especially alternative sources of energy generation.
From: United States
With the way our country works, simply funding money won't resolve anything.
We need to keep a close eye and track of where that money goes exactly. Too much corruption going on.
Written by: abc200, 5 Sep 2008 11:29 AM
From: United Kingdom
http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.....=387819001&pf_rd_i=B000HAR8UIReally the big need is to limit sales of energy inefficient products and invest in local solar / wind / water power. MNC's such as GE would love to see the DR wasting money on more generation, transmission etc. 200 watts of solar./wind power would see the typical family with a fridge, light, fan, LCD TV for 6 hours a day, Hi-Fi. DR should follow excellent example of Costa Rica. The investment proposed is 50 dollars for every Domincian. If there was a competition of solar companies to manufacture here and a factory set up for high efficiency refrigeration ..... 300 dollars could set up the average Dominican family of 4 - 6 people with power. Substantial inetrnational support could come from the UNFCCC. The removal of grid/distribution lines would be good!
Written by: anthonyC, 5 Sep 2008 1:01 PM
From: United States
"The investment proposed is 50 dollars foir every Domincian"
I really doubt the $50 figure but lets play with it.
That comes out to 1/2 a BILLION DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!!!
There is no way in hell that $300.00 worth of solar products could allow a family to live of the grid. It is more like $30,000 per house.
Written by: abc200, 5 Sep 2008 4:06 PM
From: United Kingdom
propsoed investmet 460 million dollars - 10 million Dominicans about 50 dollars/ Dominican - but they still have to import lng, coal etc.
This is stupid. At present 180 watt solar panel = 680 dollars but with big contract here! Wind is even cheaper given that in many places wind is constant. With manufacture here prices would be reduced.
S.
Written by: anthonyC, 5 Sep 2008 8:12 PM
From: United States
"This is stupid. At present 180 watt solar panel = 680 dollars but with big contract here! Wind is even cheaper given that in many places wind is constant. With manufacture here prices would be reduced. "
OMG 180 Watt Solar panel for $680?? Wow. What a bargain.
Then what?
Wiring?
Inverter?
Batteries?
Installation?
Maintanance?
Repair?
Hurricanes?
180 Watts? Wow I can run a Lighbulb and...............another Lightbulb.
Wind? Please.
The D.R. has very few areas where wind is even close to being viable. Everybody thinks that wind is free and plentiful...guess what.....it ain't.
Written by: abc200, 6 Sep 2008 9:53 AM
From: United Kingdom
You never visit a Dominican family with one ten watt light bulb? A high efficiency fridge about 200 kw/annum - 22 watts average . Efficient fan 40 watts .14 inch LCD TV 40 watts. I worked on audio amplifiers with 90% efficiency. A large contract for solar and local factory should reduce costs. Batteries are low-tech I used to recycle scrap batteries in a shed. Running 10 feet of cable - big deal! Yes , in much of the country solar or water is better. El Limon described here is near Las Terrenas in the DR.
http://sgp.undp.org/download/SGPCC.pdfElectronics is cheap when you order 2 million of something. During a hurricane a solar cell needs a 5 x 3 foot plywood/wood cover.
Yes, in this sunny land some free energy should be the birthright of every Domincian and the goverrnent can sell carbon credits when they do not build new power stations!
S
Written by: anthonyC, 6 Sep 2008 10:42 AM
From: United States
"Yes, in this sunny land some free energy should be the birthright of every Domincian and the goverrnent can sell carbon credits when they do not build new power stations!"
Carbon Credits? Are you serious?
That false marketplace is going to collapse big time.
"You never visit a Dominican family with one ten watt light bulb? A high efficiency fridge about 200 kw/annum - 22 watts average . Efficient fan 40 watts .14 inch LCD TV 40 watts."
You have no clue about Human nature so you? Do you think the average person would be happy with a 14 inch TV? As soon as they get some money it is BIG SCREEN time. High Effciency Fridge? Right! You gonna pay for it? Again as soon as they have some money it is Big Upright side by side time.
Remember the average poor family in the D.R. doesn't even pay for electricity so why would they care about how much power they use. That is the other guys problem.
Written by: abc200, 6 Sep 2008 11:28 AM
From: United Kingdom
And why should they pay - my large lcd tv burns 98 watts. Cuba had a program to replace old inefficient TV's. High efficiency fridges need cost no more than lower efficiency ones. But large fridges can be a controlled import. I don't want people to pay for electricty - just get basic appliances on low cost rental. And tough, if they plug in extra appliances - the solar 180 watt system will not cope. Carbon credits are great - and working! With no power lines there is nowhere re-appropriate electricity from! Every small TV repeater in the country works from solar - why not every house? Costa Rica has a plan - why not DR? Those that wanted swimming pool could by a solar system to drive the pump or have a pet dog in a treadmill. Yes 460 million dollars for 10 million or less Dominicans. About 50 dollars / person / 300 dollars / family 6 people.
S
Written by: anthonyC, 6 Sep 2008 12:26 PM
From: United States
You really have no clue do you?
Human nature dictates that people want more and better. Why spend $$$ on a crappy little Fridge or Tv when I can spend the same amount on a Big fridge and Wide Screen TV?
What if I don't want a solar panel on my house? What if I don't want Hazordous batteries in my home?
What if I want to spend MY MONEY the way I WANT TO?
The Cuban program was just like most other Cuban programs. They send out a pres release and people like you believe it.
Carbo credits are just a game that some Govs and Corporations are playing to keep some money circulating. It has no affect on the little guy and never will.
Written by: abc200, 6 Sep 2008 3:41 PM
From: United Kingdom
Written by: anthonyC, 6 Sep 2008 3:51 PM
From: United States
"And look out over miles of transmission lines and beltching power plants as other people follow your example of filling your house with electro-trash."
Ahh...feeling superior aren't we?
Who are you to tell people they cannot buy creature comforts as you type away on your keyboard?
Just like Al Gore flying around the globe on a private jet and ridding in the back of an Limo telling people not to buy SUV's!
Every lame idea you have come up with here I have pointed out how they are not viable. Human nature and simple economics are not something you consider.
BTW You find powerlines and Energy plants ugly but I know many treehuggers who hate windpower generators for the same reason. Solar planels can be considered unappealing by many as well.
Written by: abc200, 6 Sep 2008 5:37 PM
From: United Kingdom
If one million people have fridge that needs 50 watts of excess power, for example in the DR then about 18,000 ha of tree farms are needed.
http://www.mrec.org/confer/2005_WholeTreeEnergy.pdfIt is human nature for persons to kill people in wars, rob banks, throw trash on the ground but this does not make these activities desirable. If you catch a fish out of a lake or river in many parts of the World and do not put it back you face a fine.
But I have no wish to be a dictator and in different societies market economics has different functions and these functions are chosen in elections. The state may organise a health service or it is left to the market for example. I guess you are one of the few people who not see a place for intelligent energy use and just prefer more power stations, black outs and huge DR energy import bill.
http://www.osti.gov/energycitatio....oduct.biblio.jsp?osti_id=10165552The Cuban government conviscates big inefficient fridges.
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I am starting to fault the media as well. Are they also on the take? How come no reporter or news supplier is willing to question the government as to what is really going on in our country.
It consists of:
the Hydroelectricity Generation Company (only 14% of generation)
the Electricity Transmission Company
the Rural and Suburban Electrification Unit
the Blackout Reduction Program
50% of the North Distribution Company, EdeNorte;
50% of the South Distribution Company, EdeSur; and
the 50% government holding of the East Distribution Company, EdeEste.
[EdeNorte and EdeSur are entirely government-owned, the remaining 50% shares being held by the government's Enterprise Trust Fund (FONPER). ]
EdeEste is a mixed private-public company
oooo
There's no way of telling whether the money will be generation or transmission/distribution oriented.
The basic problem is grossly inadequate generation palmed-off as inefficient transmission/distribution.
Unless the state steps in and increases the supply of energy, it's going to be tough going.
The state's generation is mostly from water in the dams. The foreign bourgeoisie in the energy sector wants the state to give the dams away to the foreign element of the bourgeoisie which too incompetent and devious to generate juice from burning oil.
CDEEE execs probably have their eyes on a nice piece of land and this "loan" will provide the means for them to build their new mansions.
"The basic problem is grossly inadequate generation palmed-off as inefficient transmission/distribution."
The real problem is that the Energy companies are owned and run by the Government.
The Only solution is PRIVATISE!!!!
0000
Hmm.
Taking a second look.
"In financing the electricity companies (Edes) from 2009 to 2012," the article says.
EdeNorte, EdeSur, and Edeeste are distribution companies.
So, the US$460 million is really for the distribution sector, even though the distributors have grossly inadequate supply of generated electricity to distribute.
Well, the distributors have serious problems, too; so perhaps the 460 will help. But even if the 460 gets rid of all the distribution problems, the distributors still face the problem of a grossly inadequate supply.
0000
"The Dominican government and the electricity sector," the DT reports.
Hmm.
The state surely didn't mean the state and itself.
So, the state meant the "Dominican government" and the bourgeoisie in the private sector or, in other words, the privately-dominated generation sector of the electrical industry came up with the idea for the 460 for the defamed distributors.
Wait a minute.
"What is this," as the great Edwin Hawkins sang.
We need to keep a close eye and track of where that money goes exactly. Too much corruption going on.
Really the big need is to limit sales of energy inefficient products and invest in local solar / wind / water power. MNC's such as GE would love to see the DR wasting money on more generation, transmission etc. 200 watts of solar./wind power would see the typical family with a fridge, light, fan, LCD TV for 6 hours a day, Hi-Fi. DR should follow excellent example of Costa Rica. The investment proposed is 50 dollars for every Domincian. If there was a competition of solar companies to manufacture here and a factory set up for high efficiency refrigeration ..... 300 dollars could set up the average Dominican family of 4 - 6 people with power. Substantial inetrnational support could come from the UNFCCC. The removal of grid/distribution lines would be good!
I really doubt the $50 figure but lets play with it.
That comes out to 1/2 a BILLION DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!!!
There is no way in hell that $300.00 worth of solar products could allow a family to live of the grid. It is more like $30,000 per house.
This is stupid. At present 180 watt solar panel = 680 dollars but with big contract here! Wind is even cheaper given that in many places wind is constant. With manufacture here prices would be reduced.
S.
OMG 180 Watt Solar panel for $680?? Wow. What a bargain.
Then what?
Wiring?
Inverter?
Batteries?
Installation?
Maintanance?
Repair?
Hurricanes?
180 Watts? Wow I can run a Lighbulb and...............another Lightbulb.
Wind? Please.
The D.R. has very few areas where wind is even close to being viable. Everybody thinks that wind is free and plentiful...guess what.....it ain't.
Electronics is cheap when you order 2 million of something. During a hurricane a solar cell needs a 5 x 3 foot plywood/wood cover.
Yes, in this sunny land some free energy should be the birthright of every Domincian and the goverrnent can sell carbon credits when they do not build new power stations!
S
Carbon Credits? Are you serious?
That false marketplace is going to collapse big time.
"You never visit a Dominican family with one ten watt light bulb? A high efficiency fridge about 200 kw/annum - 22 watts average . Efficient fan 40 watts .14 inch LCD TV 40 watts."
You have no clue about Human nature so you? Do you think the average person would be happy with a 14 inch TV? As soon as they get some money it is BIG SCREEN time. High Effciency Fridge? Right! You gonna pay for it? Again as soon as they have some money it is Big Upright side by side time.
Remember the average poor family in the D.R. doesn't even pay for electricity so why would they care about how much power they use. That is the other guys problem.
S
Human nature dictates that people want more and better. Why spend $$$ on a crappy little Fridge or Tv when I can spend the same amount on a Big fridge and Wide Screen TV?
What if I don't want a solar panel on my house? What if I don't want Hazordous batteries in my home?
What if I want to spend MY MONEY the way I WANT TO?
The Cuban program was just like most other Cuban programs. They send out a pres release and people like you believe it.
Carbo credits are just a game that some Govs and Corporations are playing to keep some money circulating. It has no affect on the little guy and never will.
http://www.swissre.com/pws/media%....ases%202008/mi_idrc_20080825.html
There is much discussion on directing investment to a sustainable future:
http://www.sustainability-zurich.org/en/p67000184.html
Carbon credits are being used for schemes in the DR. Farmers everywhere can benefit from carbon credits.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2008/08/17/6481641-cp.html
This efficient fridge seems to sell . http://www.samsung.com/in/consume....l_cd=RA18QHMB1/XTL&fullspec=F S
Ahh...feeling superior aren't we?
Who are you to tell people they cannot buy creature comforts as you type away on your keyboard?
Just like Al Gore flying around the globe on a private jet and ridding in the back of an Limo telling people not to buy SUV's!
Every lame idea you have come up with here I have pointed out how they are not viable. Human nature and simple economics are not something you consider.
BTW You find powerlines and Energy plants ugly but I know many treehuggers who hate windpower generators for the same reason. Solar planels can be considered unappealing by many as well.
It is human nature for persons to kill people in wars, rob banks, throw trash on the ground but this does not make these activities desirable. If you catch a fish out of a lake or river in many parts of the World and do not put it back you face a fine.
But I have no wish to be a dictator and in different societies market economics has different functions and these functions are chosen in elections. The state may organise a health service or it is left to the market for example. I guess you are one of the few people who not see a place for intelligent energy use and just prefer more power stations, black outs and huge DR energy import bill.
http://www.osti.gov/energycitatio....oduct.biblio.jsp?osti_id=10165552
The Cuban government conviscates big inefficient fridges.