Dominican Today Forum » Living in the DR » General Info » Question to Dominicans about Haitians becoming Dominican citizens
#21 - Posted 7 October 2009, 1:58 PM
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RE: Question to Dominicans about Haitians becoming Dominican citizens
Quote:


Not the first nor last time someone disagrees with me........

I hope you do know that there are SOME (NOTE: "SOME" Dominicans that don't want to associate themselves with Haitians, right?.

Well, SOME (NOTE: "SOME" Dominicans, when they associate with Haitians, they get "labeled"......and since SOME (NOTE: "SOME) Dominicans do not like to be labeled, they rather stay away from Haitians........

So noooooo, it's not common to see Dominicans-Haitians marriages/dating.........perhaps they hide it......perhaps because they don't want to be "labeled.


Besides, despite the stereotype portraying them as "putas" and "easy pickings" seen on foreign lands, dominican females are even more selective and discriminative at the time of choosing their significant other, more than us males will ever be.

If something, I'm willing to bet that the dominican/haitian marriages out there are more on the side of dominican male/haitian female than the other way around.




Gentlemen,

What we are doing here is often what always renders most of our arguments moot, dragged and redundant on here. It is something that I call "Circulatory Verbal Masturbation."

It is where there are indeed agreements reached on known points made by all, or if not, most of us members, yet with the only thing being served as blockage for the argument to reach a constructive productive ending thus is still being argued is a dismal tedious word "Common" that in which case for each and every one of us may very well seem to be quite fundamentally misinterpreted or reinterpreted differently. Or maybe we simply like to disagree simply for the mere sake of being able to post or argue thus to give popularity to certain threads?


Point is: We all agree that such a practice is taking or do take place in DR's society as to whether it is viewed be common or not common to some base on their own observation or perhaps experience is indeed each and every one of us' prerogative simply because and due to the fact that opposition and arguable disagreements can be drawn no matter what the consensus reached.


Edited on 10/7/2009 2:00 PM by TanBellaMami.
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#22 - Posted 7 October 2009, 2:31 PM
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RE: Question to Dominicans about Haitians becoming Dominican citizens
Quote:
TanBellaMami previously said:

Not the first nor last time someone disagrees with me........

I hope you do know that there are SOME (NOTE: "SOME" Dominicans that don't want to associate themselves with Haitians, right?.

Well, SOME (NOTE: "SOME" Dominicans, when they associate with Haitians, they get "labeled"......and since SOME (NOTE: "SOME) Dominicans do not like to be labeled, they rather stay away from Haitians........

So noooooo, it's not common to see Dominicans-Haitians marriages/dating.........perhaps they hide it......perhaps because they don't want to be "labeled.


Besides, despite the stereotype portraying them as "putas" and "easy pickings" seen on foreign lands, dominican females are even more selective and discriminative at the time of choosing their significant other, more than us males will ever be.

If something, I'm willing to bet that the dominican/haitian marriages out there are more on the side of dominican male/haitian female than the other way around.


Any chance you can write who wrote what?.......

The above post (s) you quoted was (were) made by 2 different posters.

I mean, you' ve been here long enough to know that members WILL think that post was made by one member, when in fact was made by 2.
Edited on 10/7/2009 2:32 PM by TuPapaupa.

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#23 - Posted 7 October 2009, 5:27 PM
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RE: Question to Dominicans about Haitians becoming Dominican citizens
Quote:
TanBellaMami previously said:

Quote:
MIRABUENO previously said:

Quote:
USADR previously said:

For Dominicans who either live in DR or travel their often, I got this question asked on another forum :

-How common is dating between Dominicans and Haitians?
-How common is marriage between Dominicans and Haitians?
-How common are mixed Dominican/Haitians in DR?
-How common are Haitians becoming citizens?
-Are Haitians becoming absorbed into the Dominican mainstream society, or is it more similar to the Bahamas in which they make up a distinct ethnic minority?

i would't say that thier are no dominican haitian couples it's just that it isn't as common as one would think. any that exist would be more in the border regions of our country.


Well,

Often when inter marriage happens between a Haitian and Dominican it is not broadcast due to of course the known stigmatized resentments and stereotypes but given that I have lived in DR growing up I have seem it all the time.

Or keep in mind that there is always a sense such couple often having to want to relocate to new "barrios o ciudades" soon after they marry so their such harmony would not be scrutinized. By the way, in intermarrying in DR there are much to consider culturally fused with traditionally class dynamics often play a major role. in the elite upper class level, intermarriages between Haitians and Dominicans happens everyday.

Especially those Haitian tourists men/women (Diasporas) from the USA whom may have once visited DR and have found themselves wives or husbands. To not also forget that often we have several of those couple who at times are well off and moved back to Haiti while owning properties in DR. Often, Dominican women would later find out of their spouse's ancestral background to have been of Haitian heritage due to mislead pretexts of appearance that some Dominicans often assume if one is light skinned therefore he or she may not be Haitian.

For example: As a Dominican-Haitian couple, If we are newlyweds new to a neighborhood and are culturally fluent constant Spanish speakers in our household... Who is going to assume that we are Dominican-Haitian intermarrying couple?


I would agree with you afro on this one, USADR your argument is full of hole and rather preposterous and serve to stir up controversies when there are none, your ignorance bliss throughout and your subliminal message well understood. 2 countries that share a common border one have been inter-mingling wronlgy or rightly in the other one affair over 200 years, you are saying relation, marriage or concubinage is rare, please provide us with the statistics, I will gladly recant I will venture to say the inter relation it's probably much higher, if we factor in the border town, if you were to google "border countries" you will see a high inter-relation among the population of the border town unless DR and H are exempted. I personally meet these folks during my stay in Montreal
Edited on 10/7/2009 5:47 PM by antonioj.
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#24 - Posted 7 October 2009, 5:44 PM
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RE: Question to Dominicans about Haitians becoming Dominican citizens
Quote:
antonioj previously said:

Quote:
TanBellaMami previously said:

Quote:
MIRABUENO previously said:

Quote:
USADR previously said:

For Dominicans who either live in DR or travel their often, I got this question asked on another forum :

-How common is dating between Dominicans and Haitians?
-How common is marriage between Dominicans and Haitians?
-How common are mixed Dominican/Haitians in DR?
-How common are Haitians becoming citizens?
-Are Haitians becoming absorbed into the Dominican mainstream society, or is it more similar to the Bahamas in which they make up a distinct ethnic minority?

i would't say that thier are no dominican haitian couples it's just that it isn't as common as one would think. any that exist would be more in the border regions of our country.


Well,

Often when inter marriage happens between a Haitian and Dominican it is not broadcast due to of course the known stigmatized resentments and stereotypes but given that I have lived in DR growing up I have seem it all the time.

Or keep in mind that there is always a sense such couple often having to want to relocate to new "barrios o ciudades" soon after they marry so their such harmony would not be scrutinized. By the way, in intermarrying in DR there are much to consider culturally fused with traditionally class dynamics often play a major role. in the elite upper class level, intermarriages between Haitians and Dominicans happens everyday.

Especially those Haitian tourists men/women (Diasporas) from the USA whom may have once visited DR and have found themselves wives or husbands. To not also forget that often we have several of those couple who at times are well off and moved back to Haiti while owning properties in DR. Often, Dominican women would later find out of their spouse's ancestral background to have been of Haitian heritage due to mislead pretexts of appearance that some Dominicans often assume if one is light skinned therefore he or she may not be Haitian.

For example: As a Dominican-Haitian couple, If we are newlyweds new to a neighborhood and are culturally fluent constant Spanish speakers in our household... Who is going to assume that we are Dominican-Haitian intermarrying couple?


I would agree with you afro on this one, USADR your argument is full of hole and rather preposterous and serve to stir up controversies when there are none, your ignorance bliss throughout and your subliminal message well understood. 2 countries that share a common border one have been inter-mingling wronlgy or rightly in the other one affair over 200 years you are saying relation, marriage or concubination is rare, please provide us with the statistic, I will gladly recant I will venture to say it's probably much higher if we factor in the border town, if you were to google "border countries" you will see a high inter-relation among the population of the border town unless DR and H are exempted.


They may be common on the upper classes, but I find it doubtful that a common Yuladis, whose greatest objective in life is to climb through the socioeconomic ladder, would gladly marry with a hand-to-mouth Dieudonné, who arrived to the country yesterday, and can barely speak two syllables of spanish. And I'm doing this analysis without taking into account the physical beauty part of the equation. You'll have to excuse me, my brother antoine, but you'll have to be woefully ignorant about the class dynamics of Latin America if you don't consider the common haitian peasant to be numbered among the "wretched of the earth" (on the words of Frantz Fanon) when one is speaking about the social relationship issues of our countries.
Edited on 10/7/2009 5:51 PM by Lautaro.
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#25 - Posted 7 October 2009, 6:05 PM
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RE: Question to Dominicans about Haitians becoming Dominican citizens
the experience factor is a big part of inter relationships between haitians and dominicans that take place and why. geography has a big part to do with it. i know that i am stating something that is obvious. i know that in the border regions you have a class of dominicans that share things in common with haitians from a class perspective in comparison to dominicans in the cibao that are more well of financially. my experiences with haitian dominican couples honestly i only know of one in the united states and in the dominican republic i know of none. i know about them but people that i do not know personally.
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#26 - Posted 7 October 2009, 6:05 PM
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RE: Question to Dominicans about Haitians becoming Dominican citizens
Quote:
Lautaro previously said:

Quote:
TuPapaupa previously said:

Quote:
TanBellaMami previously said:

Quote:
TuPapaupa previously said:


1- Not common....happens but it's not common at all,
2- Not common........same as above,
3- Not common.......same as above,
4- Not common......Most Haitians are illegal so becoming Citizens is out of the question,
5- ABSOLUTELY NOT.......Haitians rather stick with their own.



TuPapaupa,

I am sorry to say you are quite wrong, but I can still agree with you only under the premise of the sense that whatever the percentage you think is or is not common falls into the category of feared social reprising disownment by some other fellow more resentful Dominican peers. That is not true that "Haitians stick to or with their own" There could not have been a more misconceived notion such as this.

If anything much like DR, there a lot of Haitians much like blacks anywhere who tend to love the idea of intermarriages with other creed with and of Europeans characteristic due to what they feel in mind society has told them to be desirable features thus the typical trendy of common societal conditioning insecurities.

Most of the Haitians that are illegals or are considered undocumented in DR are those Haitians from Haitian peasant provinces that seriously lack or let us just say "do not" have established Administrative infrastructures to be able to have the required items of documentation which would have deemed them documented on DR's soil as per DR's constitution states.

Such only required items are as follow and can be in either a combination of but not limited to, or under required possession of either, and or or:

-- A valid Haitian Identification Card.
-- A valid Haitian Passport.
-- A legitimate Birth Certificates.

As such, those documentations are required to must be recognizable by both Government institutions on the island as per agreeable foreign policies relations between the two nations do not so much "per say" claim those individuals to be illegals. That is why you see the word "Undocumented" or "In Transition" are rather often used.

Not the first nor last time someone disagrees with me........

I hope you do know that there are SOME (NOTE: "SOME" Dominicans that don't want to associate themselves with Haitians, right?.

Well, SOME (NOTE: "SOME" Dominicans, when they associate with Haitians, they get "labeled"......and since SOME (NOTE: "SOME) Dominicans do not like to be labeled, they rather stay away from Haitians........

So noooooo, it's not common to see Dominicans-Haitians marriages/dating.........perhaps they hide it......perhaps because they don't want to be "labeled".


Besides, despite the stereotype portraying them as "putas" and "easy pickings" seen on foreign lands, dominican females are even more selective and discriminative at the time of choosing their significant other, more than us males will ever be. If something, I'm willing to bet that the dominican/haitian marriages out there are more on the side of dominican male/haitian female than the other way around.


Yes, I agree alot haitian probably consider going or marrying a panyol a prize
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#27 - Posted 7 October 2009, 6:11 PM
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RE: Question to Dominicans about Haitians becoming Dominican citizens
Quote:
MIRABUENO previously said:

the experience factor is a big part of inter relationships between haitians and dominicans that take place and why. geography has a big part to do with it. i know that i am stating something that is obvious. i know that in the border regions you have a class of dominicans that share things in common with haitians from a class perspective in comparison to dominicans in the cibao that are more well of financially. my experiences with haitian dominican couples honestly i only know of one in the united states and in the dominican republic i know of none. i know about them but people that i do not know personally.

I have personally met 2 dominicans women at a strip club, who told me that they were mixed haitian heritage, bottom line I think there is probably more unless we have a census, or until the stigma associate with Haitian is eliminated, we will then know the real figure for sure.
Edited on 10/7/2009 6:14 PM by antonioj.
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#28 - Posted 7 October 2009, 6:13 PM
Location: Dominican Republic, El Guapito Jarabacoence,Nariz de Guineo, a troll and lloronas nightmare, right hand of El Boogeyman! MANABAO,LA VEGA
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RE: Question to Dominicans about Haitians becoming Dominican citizens
Quote:
antonioj previously said:

Quote:
MIRABUENO previously said:

the experience factor is a big part of inter relationships between haitians and dominicans that take place and why. geography has a big part to do with it. i know that i am stating something that is obvious. i know that in the border regions you have a class of dominicans that share things in common with haitians from a class perspective in comparison to dominicans in the cibao that are more well of financially. my experiences with haitian dominican couples honestly i only know of one in the united states and in the dominican republic i know of none. i know about them but people that i do not know personally.

I have personally met 2 dominicans women at a , who told me that their were mixed haitian heritage, bottom line I think there is probably more unless we have a census, or until the stigma associate with Haitian is eliminated, we will then know the real figure for sure.

time to get started then! i understand what you mean and yes the decent of people are apparent more or less with mixed blood.
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#29 - Posted 7 October 2009, 6:22 PM
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RE: Question to Dominicans about Haitians becoming Dominican citizens
Quote:
Lautaro previously said:

Quote:
antonioj previously said:

Quote:
TanBellaMami previously said:

Quote:
MIRABUENO previously said:

Quote:
USADR previously said:

For Dominicans who either live in DR or travel their often, I got this question asked on another forum :

-How common is dating between Dominicans and Haitians?
-How common is marriage between Dominicans and Haitians?
-How common are mixed Dominican/Haitians in DR?
-How common are Haitians becoming citizens?
-Are Haitians becoming absorbed into the Dominican mainstream society, or is it more similar to the Bahamas in which they make up a distinct ethnic minority?

i would't say that thier are no dominican haitian couples it's just that it isn't as common as one would think. any that exist would be more in the border regions of our country.


Well,

Often when inter marriage happens between a Haitian and Dominican it is not broadcast due to of course the known stigmatized resentments and stereotypes but given that I have lived in DR growing up I have seem it all the time.

Or keep in mind that there is always a sense such couple often having to want to relocate to new "barrios o ciudades" soon after they marry so their such harmony would not be scrutinized. By the way, in intermarrying in DR there are much to consider culturally fused with traditionally class dynamics often play a major role. in the elite upper class level, intermarriages between Haitians and Dominicans happens everyday.

Especially those Haitian tourists men/women (Diasporas) from the USA whom may have once visited DR and have found themselves wives or husbands. To not also forget that often we have several of those couple who at times are well off and moved back to Haiti while owning properties in DR. Often, Dominican women would later find out of their spouse's ancestral background to have been of Haitian heritage due to mislead pretexts of appearance that some Dominicans often assume if one is light skinned therefore he or she may not be Haitian.

For example: As a Dominican-Haitian couple, If we are newlyweds new to a neighborhood and are culturally fluent constant Spanish speakers in our household... Who is going to assume that we are Dominican-Haitian intermarrying couple?


I would agree with you afro on this one, USADR your argument is full of hole and rather preposterous and serve to stir up controversies when there are none, your ignorance bliss throughout and your subliminal message well understood. 2 countries that share a common border one have been inter-mingling wronlgy or rightly in the other one affair over 200 years you are saying relation, marriage or concubination is rare, please provide us with the statistic, I will gladly recant I will venture to say it's probably much higher if we factor in the border town, if you were to google "border countries" you will see a high inter-relation among the population of the border town unless DR and H are exempted.


They may be common on the upper classes, but I find it doubtful that a common Yuladis, whose greatest objective in life is to climb through the socioeconomic ladder, would gladly marry with a hand-to-mouth Dieudonné, who arrived to the country yesterday, and can barely speak two syllables of spanish. And I'm doing this analysis without taking into account the physical beauty part of the equation. You'll have to excuse me, my brother antoine, but you'll have to be woefully ignorant about the class dynamics of Latin America if you don't consider the common haitian peasant to be numbered among the "wretched of the earth" (on the words of Frantz Fanon) when one is speaking about the social relationship issues of our countries.

Lol Mr Lautaro you are totally right, I agree with the class dynamic . Howerver the border area where the poor conglomerate that is what I had in mind where they share dinner and a few crops (mi cas tu casa).
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#30 - Posted 7 October 2009, 8:18 PM
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RE: Question to Dominicans about Haitians becoming Dominican citizens
Quote:
TanBellaMami previously said:

Often when inter marriage happens between a Haitian and Dominican it is not broadcast due to of course the known stigmatized resentments and stereotypes but given that I have lived in DR growing up and travel there often as my mother and father's marriage is of evidence, I have seen, still seeing it all the time.


I didn't get it. The Haitian/Dominican couples hide from their families and friends and move some place else? They fear rejection from their acquaintance, but are welcome by the strangers?

Quote:
TanBellaMami previously said:

For example: As a Dominican-Haitian couple, If we are newlyweds new to a neighborhood and are culturally fluent constant Spanish speakers in our household... Who is going to assume that we are Dominican-Haitian intermarrying couple?


Who is going to assume that they are a Dominican-Haitian intermarrying couple? Anybody that hears the Haitian speaking, even if is a first generation of Haitian born in DR. That thick accent takes a lot of effort to disguise, speaking Spanish or English.
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