Dominican Today Forum » Living in the DR » General Info » Repay what you stole..."la France"
#1 - Posted 7 July 2008, 11:26 AM
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Repay what you stole..."la France"
In the late 1820's, more than 15 years after Haiti gained its Independence, France extorted to what amounts to more than 21 billion dollars from Haiti. France did this by blockading Haiti with dozen of naval vessel holding more than 20,000 troops. It demanded that Haiti pay them an indemnity for its lost properties (slaves). Obviously knowing that lightning does not strike the same place twice, Boyer(Haiti's president) had to accept. Many historians note that this is one of the factors that Haiti is the way it is. From that time on Haiti transferred 80% of its income to pay the French. What France did is against international law. My question is, do you think France should pay that money back. My view on this is mix....Haiti should not stress the mishaps of the yesteryears but look foward to a much brighter future. But at the same time France should show a little respect by doing much more to aid Haiti...because at the end of the day, they are both Francophone nations. What's your opinion?
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#2 - Posted 7 July 2008, 11:28 AM
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RE: Repay what you stole..."la France"
France should do a lot more for Haiti!
At the same time, Haiti should do a lot more for Hiati too. They could start by claiming the money back, obviously in real money terms of today's economy, which means the amount should be corrected with inlfation since that day a few centuries ago.
Edited on 7/7/2008 11:45 AM by buenoha.
#3 - Posted 7 July 2008, 11:43 AM
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RE: Repay what you stole..."la France"
Although I think this case is very specific, and it is simple to see the justice in demanding payments from France to Haiti, I don't see it happening because of the general precedent it would set. We also have to consider what would be the effect of these resources being given to Haiti, who would administer them, etc and the answers may be dissapointing.
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#4 - Posted 7 July 2008, 2:38 PM
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RE: Repay what you stole..."la France"
you are absolutly right they should pay back and double due to all the harm that they cause to Haiti, I never hear that France is doing any thing to help Haiti. look Ingrid betancourt has been kept as a hostage bij the farc , they make a drama from that in Haiti people are starving but they do nothing about. They dont even talk about.
#5 - Posted 7 July 2008, 2:59 PM
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RE: Repay what you stole..."la France"
Quote:
jemesouviens1804 previously said:

In the late 1820's, more than 15 years after Haiti gained its Independence, France extorted to what amounts to more than 21 billion dollars from Haiti. France did this by blockading Haiti with dozen of naval vessel holding more than 20,000 troops. It demanded that Haiti pay them an indemnity for its lost properties (slaves). Obviously knowing that lightning does not strike the same place twice, Boyer(Haiti's president) had to accept. Many historians note that this is one of the factors that Haiti is the way it is. From that time on Haiti transferred 80% of its income to pay the French. What France did is against international law. My question is, do you think France should pay that money back. My view on this is mix....Haiti should not stress the mishaps of the yesteryears but look foward to a much brighter future. But at the same time France should show a little respect by doing much more to aid Haiti...because at the end of the day, they are both Francophone nations. What's your opinion?


France should repay the debt, but at the same time, it should ensure itself of creating mechanisms in order for this money to be well administered by the Haitian gov., once it's paid. It wouldn't do to pay all that money only to see it being squandered away on the whims of some good-for-nothing politicos, as it's always bound to happen on Latin America, save a few notable exceptions (i.e. Chile and Costa Rica), when the developed countries and the international financial institutions deign to lend money to our countries, without ensuring themselves of seeing that money being given the use that was intended for it in the first place.
Edited on 7/7/2008 3:21 PM by Lautaro.
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#6 - Posted 7 July 2008, 3:37 PM
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RE: Repay what you stole..."la France"
Quote:
buenoha previously said:

France should do a lot more for Haiti!
At the same time, Haiti should do a lot more for Hiati too. They could start by claiming the money back, obviously in real money terms of today's economy, which means the amount should be corrected with inlfation since that day a few centuries ago.


I agree with the second one that Haiti should do a lot more for Haiti, only then as said above, could Haiti start the process of claiming that money back. As clever mentioned above, indeed to include the correct today's inflation. Other than that, the rest is up to france as to whether or not "they" want to do for Haiti because and due to the fact that Haiti is not France's obligation if Haiti is to be considered independent.

Not bad Buenoha, I am impressed with that as your statement.
#7 - Posted 7 July 2008, 3:44 PM
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RE: Repay what you stole..."la France"
Quote:
Manhattanite previously said:

Although I think this case is very specific, and it is simple to see the justice in demanding payments from France to Haiti, I don't see it happening because of the general precedent it would set. We also have to consider what would be the effect of these resources being given to Haiti, who would administer them, etc and the answers may be dissapointing.



Yes, I as well do not see it happening as any such demand of Haiti from France might strain the now existing and already not too stable relationship if that is what you meant Manhattanite when you mentioned "the general precedent it would set." I agree. On important note, France has already been pro-active in helping Haiti with certain social challenges that are not mentioned publicly or that people simply have to research.
#8 - Posted 7 July 2008, 3:51 PM
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RE: Repay what you stole..."la France"
Quote:
julio previously said:

You are absolutely right they should pay back and double due to all the harm that they cause to Haiti, I never hear that France is doing any thing to help Haiti. Look Ingrid betancourt has been kept as a hostage by the farc , they make a drama from that in Haiti people are starving but they do nothing about. They do not even talk about.



Let us be careful in how such a demand is done. Such a demand cannot go forward with already pre-notions that Haiti should go play victims of France any wrong doing. It should go under the basis of law that Haiti should never have had to pay France in the first place with the given fact Haiti's freedom was not a treaty, given or granted by France, but rather was taken rightfully fair and square through battle which they have lost that Haiti should firmly state that it is not their obligation to worry about France's pride and ego by demanding in last effort, payments to save themselves from any kind of embarrassment.
#9 - Posted 7 July 2008, 3:59 PM
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RE: Repay what you stole..."la France"
Quote:
Lautaro previously said:

Quote:
jemesouviens1804 previously said:

In the late 1820's, more than 15 years after Haiti gained its Independence, France extorted to what amounts to more than 21 billion dollars from Haiti. France did this by blockading Haiti with dozen of naval vessel holding more than 20,000 troops. It demanded that Haiti pay them an indemnity for its lost properties (slaves). Obviously knowing that lightning does not strike the same place twice, Boyer(Haiti's president) had to accept. Many historians note that this is one of the factors that Haiti is the way it is. From that time on Haiti transferred 80% of its income to pay the French. What France did is against international law. My question is, do you think France should pay that money back. My view on this is mix....Haiti should not stress the mishaps of the yesteryears but look foward to a much brighter future. But at the same time France should show a little respect by doing much more to aid Haiti...because at the end of the day, they are both Francophone nations. What's your opinion?


France should repay the debt, but at the same time, it should ensure itself of creating mechanisms in order for this money to be well administered by the Haitian gov., once it's paid. It wouldn't do to pay all that money only to see it being squandered away on the whims of some good-for-nothing politicos, as it's always bound to happen on Latin America, save a few notable exceptions (i.e. Chile and Costa Rica), when the developed countries and the international financial institutions deign to lend money to our countries, without ensuring themselves of seeing that money being given the use that was intended for it in the first place.


Laut,

That is what is at work now. France discreetly as told by many high officials says that it is negotiating some kind of annulment of the debt or possibly even assist Haiti in gaining stability in both social infrastructure and financially. However France has not openly omit that such a move would be as effort to pay back because any stress on that demand as both Haiti and France believe may politically strain their relationship for the worse which is already not top notch of a relationship. Thus any kind of considerations on France's part given their sense of Napoleonic pride and ego is better than nothing for now. All in all, I agree with most of what you all are saying on this thread.
#10 - Posted 7 July 2008, 4:19 PM
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RE: Repay what you stole..."la France"
Quote:
Consuello previously said:

Yes, I as well do not see it happening as any such demand of Haiti from France might strain the now existing and already not too stable relationship if that is what you meant Manhattanite when you mentioned "the general precedent it would set." I agree.


Consuello I meant the precedent it would set for issues between other former colonies and the Western powers.
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