Dominican Today Forum » Living in the DR » General Info » Col. Francisco Alberto Caamaño Deñó my hero , one of the greatest Dominicans to live
#21 - Posted 17 October 2008, 12:03 PM
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RE: Col. Francisco Alberto Caamaño Deñó my hero , one of the greatest Dominicans to live
There is no way to know if Caamaño was a communist at the end of his life and there is no way to judge what a government under him would have done and what tendencies he would have had.
From a purely historical and factual point of view which is my interest in the beginning the 24 of April movement as it was called it was not left wing oriented. Although there where many leftist groups and communist in arms but they were a minority. It was a popular revolution where a large percentage of the persons taking arms where active military or retired military and this was the question you where asked when they started distributing arms to civilians. Of course there was chaos and confusion.
I witnessed a shoe shine boy about 9 years old taking a revolver from a dead sailor and running with it meanwhile taking wild shots everywhere.
Caamaño was basically a warrior not a politician, his military upbringing and experiences that formed
his line of thought was that of discipline, loyalty and being a man of your word.
We can not judge him so harshly now specially considering the fact that like others around him he would have been
a very rich and powerful man if he had decided to sell out his convictions. Which he didn't.
"United by purpose, bound by honor", La Hermandad.
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#22 - Posted 17 October 2008, 12:09 PM
Location: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
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RE: Col. Francisco Alberto Caamaño Deñó my hero , one of the greatest Dominicans to live
Soydeicampo, no offense buddy and fellow cibaeño (if you're from our dear ei campo), but it's easy to say that the DR's system is perfect while living of Her Majesty's exchequer, so to speak. Why don't you come here "a guayar la yuca" like a good dominican? Everything is not as shiny as the touristic posters would make you believe.
Edited on 10/17/2008 12:15 PM by Lautaro.
"A man who strives after goodness in all his acts is sure to come to ruin, since there are so many men who are not good."

Niccolo Macchiavelli - The Prince

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#23 - Posted 17 October 2008, 12:38 PM
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RE: Col. Francisco Alberto Caamaño Deñó my hero , one of the greatest Dominicans to live
Quote:
Lautaro previously said:



soydeicampo, I'll put it easy for you. Of our western neighbours, which is better off, communist Cuba or capitalist Haiti? I'm letting Jamaica out of this because, for better or for worse, that island is still a semi-colony of the Downing-Street cabinet.



I don't mean for this to be offensive, but I would argue Haiti never made it far past the semi-feudal status it had as a French colony. Calling it a capitalist economy is a stretch, just like calling a 'government' with no armed forces a state is a stretch.
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#24 - Posted 17 October 2008, 12:52 PM
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RE: Col. Francisco Alberto Caamaño Deñó my hero , one of the greatest Dominicans to live
Quote:
AfroLatino previously said:

Many of you keep going back and forth with this and have yet given any good educative information about Col. Francisco Alberto Caamaño Deñó so that those who do not know about him can. Instead of rambling on, why not provide worthy solid links to debate this?

The one pure mistake always made by people posting on this site is that they never can help themselves not to project their own passionate subjectivity on a matter. I mean this constant circular verbal masturbation....


Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black (pun intended). Afro you are the definition of a poster caught up in his passionate subjectivity and ramblings. By the way very little on the public internet is a proper reference. How in the world is a google search objective when no one can objectively explain to you how they sort their results? Information on the internet is generally worth what you paid for it...nil. Hearing the opinions of others, even just youthful recollections or hearsay from family, is much more interesting in terms of a forum than a pretend debate with links of dubious value.

As for my opinion of Caamaño from what little I have read he doesn't strike me as a terribly notable individual. It's commendable that he put forth effort to topple Balaguer but he seems to have failed spectacularly. Also it sounds like he was at the very least flirting with far left philosophy, and even if you agree with it you must admit that it would only have brought DR more bloody trouble from the US if we had veered too far down that path.
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#25 - Posted 17 October 2008, 1:12 PM
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RE: Col. Francisco Alberto Caamaño Deñó my hero , one of the greatest Dominicans to live
Quote:
Manhattanite previously said:

Quote:
Lautaro previously said:



soydeicampo, I'll put it easy for you. Of our western neighbours, which is better off, communist Cuba or capitalist Haiti? I'm letting Jamaica out of this because, for better or for worse, that island is still a semi-colony of the Downing-Street cabinet.



I don't mean for this to be offensive, but I would argue Haiti never made it far past the semi-feudal status it had as a French colony. Calling it a capitalist economy is a stretch, just like calling a 'government' with no armed forces a state is a stretch.


No offense taken. It's just that I get mad every time uninformed people try to paint Cuba as a colony of Hell on Earth, when there are clearly countries that are in a more compromised situation out there, and without recognizing the fact that, although the revolution have made dreadful mistakes, it still have accomplished a lot things in which it can take pride on. For example, its very efficient natural disaster prevention system, from which we could learn a thing or two, as the past four hurricanes have shown (Heck, even the US could learn something, if we take Katrina as an example). Or their birth control programs, which have maintained their population frozen on the 10 million ceiling while our island is getting massively overpopulated (its population is over the 20 million cap and growing as we speak), a thing that will cause us grief on the future, if things keep going at the pace that they are going.
Edited on 10/17/2008 1:25 PM by Lautaro.
"A man who strives after goodness in all his acts is sure to come to ruin, since there are so many men who are not good."

Niccolo Macchiavelli - The Prince

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#26 - Posted 17 October 2008, 9:05 PM
Location: United States, "El Amanza GUAPOS, BIGOTS, TROLLS, LLORONAS y SELF-PROCLAIMED DOMINICAN "PATRIOTS" De Villa Duarte"
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RE: Col. Francisco Alberto Caamaño Deñó my hero , one of the greatest Dominicans to live
Quote:
Lautaro previously said:

Quote:
TuPapaupa previously said:

Quote:
Lautaro previously said:

Quote:
soydeicampo previously said:

Caamano was a communist was a communist was a communist! There's no point trying to sugar coat this fact, my step dad fought for him and heard all the recruitment propaganda at the time so f^% what you read....the man was a communist!
Why did he go to communist Cuba for assistance if he wasn't. Would Uncle sam had spent millions on a peacekeeping mission if the threat weren't a real one, I resent intervention as much as the next man. But as above Caamano was a communist.
BTW; nothing wrong with socialism/communism as an ideal, just doesn fly in the real world.
Another thing: would you try to start a guerilla campaign with just 8 men? poor strategy! He led those men to their deaths. Didnt stand a chance, not in the face of the Dominican Army, too well trained, too disciplined, too capable. Suicide. Poor leadership by Caamano in my opinion. shouldnt of put his faithful followers in that position in the first place. The Dominican people didnt want communism, hence he got sold out, wasnt the same as Batista's Cuba so couldnt never in a hundred years work.
Poor.
We dont need a Che or Fidel. We have had our own heroes in our time. Maximo Gomez/Antonio Duverge to quote two.
Had Caamano been succesfull we would be a third rate communist state, without the levels of infrastructure and wealth we enjoy today, admittedly theres lots of interference from abroad, the distibution of wealth could be better but we have a better quality of life as people than many developed countries. Dominicans have a better lifestyle than people in developed countries if you think about it, always out drinking partying, doing family stuff, leading happy lives, even if their poor.



soydeicampo, I'll put it easy for you. Of our western neighbours, which is better off, communist Cuba or capitalist Haiti? I'm letting Jamaica out of this because, for better or for worse, that island is still a semi-colony of the Downing-Street cabinet.

I hope you don't mind if I answer your question before he does.

I'll take Cuba any day of the week!.

Some of these people are ASSuming that because Castro allowed him to train his troops there that all of a sudden he was going to turn the DR into a Communist country.

How many countries has Castro tried to assist and at the end of the day, none became Communists?.

If any of you know anything about International History, you'll know which countries I am talking about.

Visiting a country, for whatever reason, doesn't mean that person believes in their policies. Only idiots will think so.

To this day, many years later, Puerto Rican singer Danny Rivera is thought, by many idiots, to be a Communist because he went to Cuba, when it was taboo, and performed to fans, including Castro.

To this day, many narrow-minded idiots still think he is Communist, even thought he said back them, and still says, that all he did was his job and that politics was never a subject while he was there.









I don't mind it at all, Papaupa. I agree with you 100%, some fools are so partisan that they believe that every movement that Castro supported have to have the condition of being communist, not knowing that Castro's aim is not to expand the cuban system, but to spite the US establishment, so every movement that ran counter with it is ok on his book. Heck, he even gave support for the black power movement on the US for God's sake and many national liberation movements on the African continent that were far from spousing the communist cause.

I hear you.

I want nothing to do with Communism. I don't even like to talk about it.

But just because I go against everything Castro stands for doesn't mean I can't also believe that he is a very smart man.

He has been, in so many ways I don't dare to count, sticking his whole arm up the US's ass, it's not even funny.

Any Government with a hint of Cummunist, the US has been able to have a saying and have been able to convinced those countries not go against anything the US "adviced" them to do.

Not only has the US not been able to have control Castro, but the man has even visited the US a few times and, in a way, stick his finger to it as if saying "you couldn't dethrone me and here I am visiting your country".

You kill a cop, he will give you refuge.
You steal money, he will give you refuge.
You bomb the US, he will give you refuge.
Anything bad anybody does against the US, he will give you refuge.

And he doesn't do it because he has a soft heart, he doe it becuse he knows he is sticking his finger up the US's ass.











Edited on 10/17/2008 9:07 PM by TuPapaupa.

I am The BOOO!!GEYMAN...Hide The Kids And Stop The VELORIO, The Dancing, The Singing, The Whining, The Nagging, The Complaining and LLORADERA....El LEONAAAAAAAAZO De Villa Duarte is Here!.
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#27 - Posted 17 October 2008, 9:21 PM
Location: United States, "El Amanza GUAPOS, BIGOTS, TROLLS, LLORONAS y SELF-PROCLAIMED DOMINICAN "PATRIOTS" De Villa Duarte"
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RE: Col. Francisco Alberto Caamaño Deñó my hero , one of the greatest Dominicans to live
Quote:
Manhattanite previously said:

Quote:
AfroLatino previously said:

Many of you keep going back and forth with this and have yet given any good educative information about Col. Francisco Alberto Caamaño Deñó so that those who do not know about him can. Instead of rambling on, why not provide worthy solid links to debate this?

The one pure mistake always made by people posting on this site is that they never can help themselves not to project their own passionate subjectivity on a matter. I mean this constant circular verbal masturbation....


Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black (pun intended). Afro you are the definition of a poster caught up in his passionate subjectivity and ramblings. By the way very little on the public internet is a proper reference. How in the world is a google search objective when no one can objectively explain to you how they sort their results? Information on the internet is generally worth what you paid for it...nil. Hearing the opinions of others, even just youthful recollections or hearsay from family, is much more interesting in terms of a forum than a pretend debate with links of dubious value.

As for my opinion of Caamaño from what little I have read he doesn't strike me as a terribly notable individual. It's commendable that he put forth effort to topple Balaguer but he seems to have failed spectacularly. Also it sounds like he was at the very least flirting with far left philosophy, and even if you agree with it you must admit that it would only have brought DR more bloody trouble from the US if we had veered too far down that path.

I was thinking the same, he is the "talking bout the same shi, racism,t over and over again" poster kid.

He is talking like this now because I kicked his ass and made him stop abusing and attacking posters here.

I do agree with what you said about information gathered on the internet.

Caamano's only mistake was to align himself with someone, Juan Bosch, who even if not a full blown Communist, in my opinion, had Communist tendencies.

Bosch's biggest mistake?. To hint he was going to repay what the DR owed the US and then deal with other countries, such as Vanezuela.

In my opinion, that was his downfall.









Edited on 10/17/2008 9:25 PM by TuPapaupa.

I am The BOOO!!GEYMAN...Hide The Kids And Stop The VELORIO, The Dancing, The Singing, The Whining, The Nagging, The Complaining and LLORADERA....El LEONAAAAAAAAZO De Villa Duarte is Here!.
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#28 - Posted 17 October 2008, 10:08 PM
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RE: Col. Francisco Alberto Caamaño Deñó my hero , one of the greatest Dominicans to live
Generoso asked: What gives you the right to claim your information is better than anyone's else's?
You replied: Never said that.

Generoso asked: Where you in Ciudad Nueva in 1965?
You replied: Yes I was.

Generoso asked: Did you know Coronel Caamaño or Montes Arache?
You replied: Not personally.

Generoso asked: Why can't you be an American and a Dominican as well?
You replied: You can. I am

Generoso went on saying: "The Dominican Civil war was a sorry chapter in history for Dominican brothers to have to fight each other over politicians. I think the whole thing could have been avoided...

The same as for the US Civil War in 1861-65 that killed and maimed thousands. All wars are deeply a failure to dialogue and communicate or excess greed. I will end with one story. There is nothing more frightening than having bullets whizing by you from all sides and from the skies as well. Do you know when a plane is coming at you "head on" that you don't hear the clakety clak of the machine guns until he goes by? There is nothing more humiliating than watching an uninvited guest foreign army come in and stop the fight and take sides to tilt the balance the wrong way. The US invasion was totally uncalled for and an abuse of power because the US forces were partial to the side against the Constitucionalistas. The curious thing is that most of the units that came to DR first like the 82nd Airborne the 101st and the 1st Marine Division were later sent to Vietnam were they were later expelled by the VC."

You replied: Don't know if this post is directed at me but let me answer you, just in case. I agree wth you, 100%, with everything else you wrote.


So my question to you is: Knowing obviously 1965 was not your actual birth year and it would have taken for you to have at least been old enough in terms of age to have remembered by your own recollection the story of Col. Francisco Alberto Caamaño Deñó and all. So with that being said, I am simply asking...

How old exactly were you at that time in 1965?
Edited on 10/17/2008 10:27 PM by AfroLatino.
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#29 - Posted 17 October 2008, 10:58 PM
Location: United States, "El Amanza GUAPOS, BIGOTS, TROLLS, LLORONAS y SELF-PROCLAIMED DOMINICAN "PATRIOTS" De Villa Duarte"
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RE: Col. Francisco Alberto Caamaño Deñó my hero , one of the greatest Dominicans to live
Quote:
AfroLatino previously said:

Generoso asked: What gives you the right to claim your information is better than anyone's else's?
You replied: Never said that.

Generoso asked: Where you in Ciudad Nueva in 1965?
You replied: Yes I was.

Generoso asked: Did you know Coronel Caamaño or Montes Arache?
You replied: Not personally.

Generoso asked: Why can't you be an American and a Dominican as well?
You replied: You can. I am

Generoso went on saying: "The Dominican Civil war was a sorry chapter in history for Dominican brothers to have to fight each other over politicians. I think the whole thing could have been avoided...

The same as for the US Civil War in 1861-65 that killed and maimed thousands. All wars are deeply a failure to dialogue and communicate or excess greed. I will end with one story. There is nothing more frightening than having bullets whizing by you from all sides and from the skies as well. Do you know when a plane is coming at you "head on" that you don't hear the clakety clak of the machine guns until he goes by? There is nothing more humiliating than watching an uninvited guest foreign army come in and stop the fight and take sides to tilt the balance the wrong way. The US invasion was totally uncalled for and an abuse of power because the US forces were partial to the side against the Constitucionalistas. The curious thing is that most of the units that came to DR first like the 82nd Airborne the 101st and the 1st Marine Division were later sent to Vietnam were they were later expelled by the VC."

You replied: Don't know if this post is directed at me but let me answer you, just in case. I agree wth you, 100%, with everything else you wrote.


So my question to you is: Knowing obviously 1965 was not your actual birth year and it would have taken for you to have at least been old enough in terms of age to have remembered by your own recollection the story of Col. Francisco Alberto Caamaño Deñó and all. So with that being said, I am simply asking...

How old exactly were you at that time in 1965?

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat, you took me off ignore?.

I am honored. Jaja.

Why do you want to know my age?.

I don't care to know yours or about you.

Had it been anybody else, other than you, I would answer.

Let's just say I know a thing or two about Dominican history. Not an expert, but a thing or two.

History, in general, is my passion.

Now do me a favor, princess, PUT ME BACK ON IGNORE!.

Thank you, thank you very much.








Edited on 10/17/2008 11:07 PM by TuPapaupa.

I am The BOOO!!GEYMAN...Hide The Kids And Stop The VELORIO, The Dancing, The Singing, The Whining, The Nagging, The Complaining and LLORADERA....El LEONAAAAAAAAZO De Villa Duarte is Here!.
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#30 - Posted 18 October 2008, 7:31 AM
Location: United States, Brooklyn
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RE: Col. Francisco Alberto Caamaño Deñó my hero , one of the greatest Dominicans to live
Quote:
TuPapaupa previously said:

Quote:
AfroLatino previously said:

Generoso asked: What gives you the right to claim your information is better than anyone's else's?
You replied: Never said that.

Generoso asked: Where you in Ciudad Nueva in 1965?
You replied: Yes I was.

Generoso asked: Did you know Coronel Caamaño or Montes Arache?
You replied: Not personally.

Generoso asked: Why can't you be an American and a Dominican as well?
You replied: You can. I am

Generoso went on saying: "The Dominican Civil war was a sorry chapter in history for Dominican brothers to have to fight each other over politicians. I think the whole thing could have been avoided...

The same as for the US Civil War in 1861-65 that killed and maimed thousands. All wars are deeply a failure to dialogue and communicate or excess greed. I will end with one story. There is nothing more frightening than having bullets whizing by you from all sides and from the skies as well. Do you know when a plane is coming at you "head on" that you don't hear the clakety clak of the machine guns until he goes by? There is nothing more humiliating than watching an uninvited guest foreign army come in and stop the fight and take sides to tilt the balance the wrong way. The US invasion was totally uncalled for and an abuse of power because the US forces were partial to the side against the Constitucionalistas. The curious thing is that most of the units that came to DR first like the 82nd Airborne the 101st and the 1st Marine Division were later sent to Vietnam were they were later expelled by the VC."

You replied: Don't know if this post is directed at me but let me answer you, just in case. I agree wth you, 100%, with everything else you wrote.


So my question to you is: Knowing obviously 1965 was not your actual birth year and it would have taken for you to have at least been old enough in terms of age to have remembered by your own recollection the story of Col. Francisco Alberto Caamaño Deñó and all. So with that being said, I am simply asking...

How old exactly were you at that time in 1965?

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat, you took me off ignore?.

I am honored. Jaja.

Why do you want to know my age?.

I don't care to know yours or about you.

Had it been anybody else, other than you, I would answer.

Let's just say I know a thing or two about Dominican history. Not an expert, but a thing or two.

History, in general, is my passion.

Now do me a favor, princess, PUT ME BACK ON IGNORE!.

Thank you, thank you very much.










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