| #31 - Posted 12 December 2008, 12:28 PM | |
Location: United States, New York City Join date: February 2008 Member #: 411 Posts: 4107 | RE: New Organization Quote: Dominicanation previously said: Quote: cibaeño75 previously said: Dominicanation, Dominicans do not care for unification and in particular the brand of unification you're trying to sell us on here day in and day out for the last few weeks which is nothing more then the establishment of a "Greater Haiti" at the expense of Dominican national identity. I'm not saying this to be antagonistic for I bare no ill will toward the haitian people. I'm saying this to you because you need to realise that Dominicans of varying points of view do not want to see there nation dissappear from the face of the earth or merged with any other nation. I think you need to come to the realization that haiti's prosperity can only come about from within. Unification with DR will not necessarily solve your nation's pressing problems. All that unification would acheive is to pass on Haiti's problems to the other side of the island and no Dominican, at least any rational Dominican, wants any part of that. With that said I sincerely hope that the Haitian state gets its act together soon. Cib You are not seeing the bigger picture, be wise my friend don't you see if Haiti can get its act back together without the significant help of DR then the very first thing the Haitians will do is try to invade DR just like old times and of course DR will want to fight back and where do you think DR tourists industry will go during those times? it will take DR a good 50+ years to get back where it is now if a war broke out regardless if the Haitian fails or not in their attempt. That is why I'm proposing this peaceful solution which will be good for the both sides of the island. The Haitians have nothing to loose if we don't work out our differences now while both nations are still young then we will end up like North and South Korea. I see. So let me pose a hypothetical situation to you: Let's say you've worked hard, really hard, to secure property and a home for you and your family. Let's say you've managed your investments wisely and are running a sound household. Let us also suppose that your next-door neighbor has squandered his earnings and has let his living standards and his property go to crap, to the point that it's an eyesore on the street you live on. Would it be fair for your neighbor to demand that you tear down the fence that seperates your properties and share your well managed but meager resources with someone who squandered them while you were doing what was expected of you? What would you do if said neighbor came to you demanding that you tear down the fence so that he can enjoy your flat screen since he has no TV at all and all that's in your refrigerator since his is bare? Would it be fair to you and your family to have pick up your neighbor's burdens? Would it be fair to your children to have to take food from their mouths to feed said neighbor? That is in essence what you are asking of the Dominican people as a whole. "Don't ask me who's influenced me. A lion is made up of the lambs he's digested, and I've been reading all my life."-Charles de Gaulle |
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| #32 - Posted 12 December 2008, 12:37 PM | |
Location: Dominican Republic Join date: September 2008 Member #: 1313 Posts: 303 | RE: New Organization Quote: cibaeño75 previously said: Quote: Dominicanation previously said: Quote: cibaeño75 previously said: Dominicanation, Dominicans do not care for unification and in particular the brand of unification you're trying to sell us on here day in and day out for the last few weeks which is nothing more then the establishment of a "Greater Haiti" at the expense of Dominican national identity. I'm not saying this to be antagonistic for I bare no ill will toward the haitian people. I'm saying this to you because you need to realise that Dominicans of varying points of view do not want to see there nation dissappear from the face of the earth or merged with any other nation. I think you need to come to the realization that haiti's prosperity can only come about from within. Unification with DR will not necessarily solve your nation's pressing problems. All that unification would acheive is to pass on Haiti's problems to the other side of the island and no Dominican, at least any rational Dominican, wants any part of that. With that said I sincerely hope that the Haitian state gets its act together soon. Cib You are not seeing the bigger picture, be wise my friend don't you see if Haiti can get its act back together without the significant help of DR then the very first thing the Haitians will do is try to invade DR just like old times and of course DR will want to fight back and where do you think DR tourists industry will go during those times? it will take DR a good 50+ years to get back where it is now if a war broke out regardless if the Haitian fails or not in their attempt. That is why I'm proposing this peaceful solution which will be good for the both sides of the island. The Haitians have nothing to loose if we don't work out our differences now while both nations are still young then we will end up like North and South Korea. I see. So let me pose a hypothetical situation to you: Let's say you've worked hard, really hard, to secure property and a home for you and your family. Let's say you've managed your investments wisely and are running a sound household. Let us also suppose that your next-door neighbor has squandered his earnings and has let his living standards and his property go to crap, to the point that it's an eyesore on the street you live on. Would it be fair for your neighbor to demand that you tear down the fence that seperates your properties and share your well managed but meager resources with someone who squandered them while you were doing what was expected of you? What would you do if said neighbor came to you demanding that you tear down the fence so that he can enjoy your flat screen since he has no TV at all and all that's in your refrigerator since his is bare? Would it be fair to you and your family to have pick up your neighbor's burdens? Would it be fair to your children to have to take food from their mouths to feed said neighbor? That is in essence what you are asking of the Dominican people as a whole. Cib. If your brother ask you for a piece of bread would you throw him a stone instead? A man who has two sons. The younger demands his share of his inheritance while his father is still living, and goes off to a distant country where he "waste[s] his substance with riotous living", and eventually has to take work as a swineherd clearly a low point, as swine are unclean. There he comes to his senses, and decides to return home and throw himself on his father's mercy, thinking that even if his father does disown him, that being one of his servants is still far better than feeding pigs. But when he returns home, his father greets him with open arms, and hardly gives him a chance to express his repentance; he kills a fatted calf to celebrate his return. The older brother resents the favored treatment of his faithless brother and complains of the lack of reward for his own faithfulness. From that statement above Cib I can tell that you are the older brother resenting the younger one or I should say the Dominicans resenting the Haitians because of their careless decisions over the years. But the father responds tot he older brother is this and my response to you: Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found. The same goes for us so we Haitians we messed up fine just like the prodigal son and we have realized our errors and now we are willing to return and work in the jobs that you Dominicans do not want, we are willing to work as servants in your homes, take your kids to school, clean your houses, do the construction labor work that you are not willing to do but yet you still resent us. We are not asking for you to give us anything we are willing to work for it but we face daily abuse from your policemen, soldiers, government agents and civilians alike so this has to be more than because of our history. Edited on 12/12/2008 12:52 PM by Dominicanation. |
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| #33 - Posted 12 December 2008, 1:08 PM | |
Location: United States, New York City Join date: February 2008 Member #: 411 Posts: 4107 | RE: New Organization "From that statement above Cib I can tell that you are the older brother resenting the younger one or I should say the Dominicans resenting the Haitians because of their careless decisions over the years." That comparison is not fitting because our peoples do not stem from a common source or have a benefactor in common as the brothers you mentioned do. You are working under the assumption that haitians and Dominicans are the same people. We're not. The cubans and the Puerto Ricans have much more in common culturally with the Dominican people then do haitians yet they are also not the same people as us. Do you get where I'm going with this? Edited on 12/12/2008 1:12 PM by cibaeño75. "Don't ask me who's influenced me. A lion is made up of the lambs he's digested, and I've been reading all my life."-Charles de Gaulle |
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| #34 - Posted 12 December 2008, 1:15 PM | |
Location: Dominican Republic Join date: September 2008 Member #: 1313 Posts: 303 | RE: New Organization Quote: cibaeño75 previously said: "From that statement above Cib I can tell that you are the older brother resenting the younger one or I should say the Dominicans resenting the Haitians because of their careless decisions over the years." That comparison is not fitting because we our peoples do not stem from a common source or have a benefactor in common as the brothers you mentioned do. You are working under the assumption that haitians and Dominicans are the same people. We're not. The cubans and the Puerto Ricans have much more in common culturally with the Dominican people then do haitians yet they are also not the same people as us. Do you get where I'm going with this? Oh wow just because you both speaks spanish as a language does that qualify you as being more culturally connected them is that it? and yes DR and Haiti do share the same benefactors oh believe me we do and always has I think you ought to stop reading from Balaguer's page book if you think different. |
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| #35 - Posted 12 December 2008, 1:30 PM | |
Location: United States, New York City Join date: February 2008 Member #: 411 Posts: 4107 | RE: New Organization "Oh wow just because you both speaks spanish as a language does that qualify you as being more culturally connected them is that it? " It's just not language and if you think that's the only affinity that exists in the Spanish speaking caribbean then you obviously need to learn more about your neighbors. Besides, countries that share even less affinities with us save language are still more culturally compatible to the Dominican people then the haitian people would be. Language is a biggie when it comes to a common identity in case you haven't noticed and for anyone to say otherwise is just shear nonsense. My wife is from a Spanish speaking South American nation and I'm able to enjoy her family's warmth precisely because we all speak spanish. If my wife had been haitian I would never be able to form a bond with her non-english speaking relatives. It would be evident to all that we come from different nations and stem from different peoples. Indeed there are certain affinities between our peoples but the affinities shared between the haitians and the Dominicans are shared by practically ALL island peoples. That doesn't mean that cuba and jaimaca should form a single nation. That sounds as ridiculous as DR and haiti forming a single nation. "Don't ask me who's influenced me. A lion is made up of the lambs he's digested, and I've been reading all my life."-Charles de Gaulle |
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| #36 - Posted 12 December 2008, 1:46 PM | |
Location: Dominican Republic Join date: September 2008 Member #: 1313 Posts: 303 | RE: New Organization Quote: cibaeño75 previously said: "Oh wow just because you both speaks spanish as a language does that qualify you as being more culturally connected them is that it? " It's just not language and if you think that's the only affinity that exists in the Spanish speaking caribbean then you obviously need to learn more about your neighbors. Besides, countries that share even less affinities with us save language are still more culturally compatible to the Dominican people then the haitian people would be. Language is a biggie when it comes to a common identity in case you haven't noticed and for anyone to say otherwise is just shear nonsense. My wife is from a Spanish speaking South American nation and I'm able to enjoy her family's warmth precisely because we all speak spanish. If my wife had been haitian I would never be able to form a bond with her non-english speaking relatives. It would be evident to all that we come from different nations and stem from different peoples. Indeed there are certain affinities between our peoples but the affinities shared between the haitians and the Dominicans are shared by practically ALL island peoples. That doesn't mean that cuba and jaimaca should form a single nation. That sounds as ridiculous as DR and haiti forming a single nation. If Cuba and Jamaica was on the same island I don't see the reason why not to form a single nation. I would have been in the best interest of both nations to form a single nation, single market, single currency etc.... The new world order will take place and like it or not there will be a single nation on the island of AYITI, KYSKEYA, BOYO whatever the hell you want to call it. I have more people supporting my sinister ideas than you do so like the saying goes resistance is futile. I try to reason with you but you seemed to be stuck on one thing DIVISION and I don't do DIVISIONS nor SUBTRACTIONS I only do ADDITIONS and MULTIPLICATIONS. So regardless if you don't want the Haitian Empire to ADD your side of island to it list then you leave us no choice but to MULTIPLY so greatly that we outnumber you and swallow you whole which is what is happening right now. Ball is in your court sucker. You can't stop the inevitable. Edited on 12/12/2008 1:48 PM by Dominicanation. |
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| #37 - Posted 12 December 2008, 2:00 PM | |
Location: United States, New York City Join date: February 2008 Member #: 411 Posts: 4107 | RE: New Organization "Ball is in your court sucker. You can't stop the inevitable. " I see. Fine then. Why don't your people give up their flag and all symbols pertaining to the haitian nation in particular, learn spanish and then maybe we can speak of unification. The entire island could become an expanded Dominican Republic. How does that vision for unification strike you? "Don't ask me who's influenced me. A lion is made up of the lambs he's digested, and I've been reading all my life."-Charles de Gaulle |
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| #38 - Posted 12 December 2008, 2:06 PM | |
Location: Dominican Republic Join date: September 2008 Member #: 1313 Posts: 303 | RE: New Organization Quote: cibaeño75 previously said: "Ball is in your court sucker. You can't stop the inevitable. " I see. Fine then. Why don't your people give up their flag and all symbols pertaining to the haitian nation in particular, learn spanish and then maybe we can speak of unification. The entire island could become an expanded Dominican Republic. How does that vision for unification strike you? I accept but only if you promise to return the island to its original name: AYITI. |
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| #39 - Posted 12 December 2008, 2:10 PM | |
Location: United States, New York City Join date: February 2008 Member #: 411 Posts: 4107 | RE: New Organization "I try to reason with you but you seemed to be stuck on one thing DIVISION and I don't do DIVISIONS nor SUBTRACTIONS I only do ADDITIONS and MULTIPLICATIONS." I'm stuck on me being me and you being you. I'm not going to change my ways to placate you and I'll be damned before I ask another human being to do the same for me. Besides, I think it's wonderful that the island I'm from can boast two vibrant cultures. I celebrate the diversity that exists on hispaniola (or whatever you want to call it) as should all the island's denizens. I think it would be a monumental shame to destroy one at the expense of the other. That haiti and DR exist are realities and certain people from both nations need to come to terms with that. "Don't ask me who's influenced me. A lion is made up of the lambs he's digested, and I've been reading all my life."-Charles de Gaulle |
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| #40 - Posted 12 December 2008, 2:14 PM | |
Location: United States, New York City Join date: February 2008 Member #: 411 Posts: 4107 | RE: New Organization Quote: Dominicanation previously said: Quote: cibaeño75 previously said: "Ball is in your court sucker. You can't stop the inevitable. " I see. Fine then. Why don't your people give up their flag and all symbols pertaining to the haitian nation in particular, learn spanish and then maybe we can speak of unification. The entire island could become an expanded Dominican Republic. How does that vision for unification strike you? I accept but only if you promise to return the island to its original name: AYITI. LOL That wasn't my proposal. So you would be willing to give up your language and your people's cultural patrimony for unification? "Don't ask me who's influenced me. A lion is made up of the lambs he's digested, and I've been reading all my life."-Charles de Gaulle |
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