| #31 - Posted 16 January 2009, 4:22 PM | |
Location: Puerto Rico, On a rock.. PR Join date: December 2008 Member #: 1732 Posts: 46 | RE: PUERTO RICO: STATEHOOD OR INDEPENDANCE, WHAT WOULD THIS MEAN FOR DR ?? While not an expert in the numbers and what people are thinking...I believe the majority of the people like 97 or 98 % are either pro-state or status quo (commonwealth). Fortuno was elected into office by the pro-statehood party. Not that this means they will unequivocally vote for statehood but if the majority of the pro-statehood people vote for statehood and even a large fraction of the pro commonwealth people voted for statehood that would give an overwhelming majority.. This is of course if they were only given the option of statehood and separation. Purely by numbers of registered voters it's more likely that if given the choice by the US to become a state or separate in my humble opinion there'd be a new state. Yes there would be a lot of grumbling by old school PR'ns or the few true separatists. Put on top of that, the fact that there are more 2nd and 3rd generation PR'ns in the U.S. from the constant immigration than people on the Island and many if not most still have very close ties to all their family on the Island. The family connections alone would be a big factor. If people on the Island lost their citizenship they wouldn't be able to easily visit family or immigrate as they're accustomed to. As far as the slave analogy ... for the people against statehood it may seem that way but for people that are pro-statehood it may be more like whether to become part of a team. As part of a team you always lose some of your individual choice and can't do everything you want but at the same time you can be a part of a larger organization with more resources and power to get things done. You loose some of your individuality but get to be part of something bigger. As with sports, some people prefer being part of a group where the actions of the group bring them recognition, others prefer solo so that they succeed or fail on their own. Realistically, PR is so tied to the U.S. currently that not much would change for them politically anyway and the longer they're tied to the U.S. the more pointless it would be to separate. I guess you never know till it happens though. Personally... I'm all for independence.. Edited on 1/16/2009 5:07 PM by Aissedei. |
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| #32 - Posted 16 January 2009, 5:06 PM | |
Location: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me Join date: December 2007 Member #: 9 Posts: 13576 | RE: PUERTO RICO: STATEHOOD OR INDEPENDANCE, WHAT WOULD THIS MEAN FOR DR ?? Quote: cibaeño75 previously said: Quote: gouletcolonial previously said: Quote: cibaeño75 previously said: Quote: JEM237 previously said: Sicario, If I were Rican, I would probably favor statehood over independence because becoming independent would mean no more federal benefits from the U.S. as they have now. PR would become a third world country! Sorry to sound redundant with this, but all I'm saying is that Ricans should keep in mind that the U.S. might not allow for them to remain a commonwealth forever, in other words, the choice might not always be up to them as it has been now. That's what I've been attempting to insinuate but as far as statehood is concerned, simply that even if the statehood option wins in some proposed future ballot that won't necessarily mean that PR will become a state. The ultimate decision for statehood is not up to the Puerto Rican people. ciby I know you will be very unhappy when Puerto Rico becomes a state like Alaska and Hawaii before it but you will get over it ...It is inevitable ....It would be difficult no Impossible to refuse the wishes of the Puerto Rican people ....There is only two choices Statehood or Independence and you can forget about the latter..VIVA PUERTO RICO de los Estados Unidos Why on earth would I be unhappy? I find this subject interesting but whatever the outcome of puerto rico's future potitical status it will illicit no emotional response from me. It's not my country and they are not my people. But regardless of how YOU feel the puerto rican majority can vote for statehood in a monthly plebiscite from here to kingdom come but the ultimate decision will not rest with them. If you don't beleive me I suggest you take a gander at the US Constitution. ciby you know I am well aware of what is required of congress for statehood to be accomplished ....It seems you want Congress to reject them for some unexplained reason ....ciby they wont and those two senators and 6 or 8 congressmen will be real heavy hitters and be the voice of all Spanish speakers in America and all the others Mexicans ,Dominicans ,Cubans etc will be fucking green with envy lets get ready to RUUMMMMMMBBBLLLEE |
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| #33 - Posted 16 January 2009, 5:39 PM | |
Location: United States Join date: January 2009 Member #: 1932 Posts: 1186 | RE: PUERTO RICO: STATEHOOD OR INDEPENDANCE, WHAT WOULD THIS MEAN FOR DR ?? Quote: gouletcolonial previously said: [ [/QUOTE] ciby you know I am well aware of what is required of congress for statehood to be accomplished ....It seems you want Congress to reject them for some unexplained reason ....ciby they wont and those two senators and 6 or 8 congressmen will be real heavy hitters and be the voice of all Spanish speakers in America and all the others Mexicans ,Dominicans ,Cubans etc will be fucking green with envy Colonial: If you were a US senator or congressman, would you vote for statehood of PR??? Would you not feel the fear tht other nations in SA or CA may request the same??? hahahahh! jk , of course.. there is a reason those other nations celebrate an Independance Day !! Anyway, if you are willing, I will bet 2 to 1 , any amount, that if presented to the floor (Congress and Senate) it will never ever, never ever?> yes, never ever be ratified !! PR will be forcefed Independance !! WOW !! What an idea!! How's this .... put the nation on Ebay and maybe UK would bite !! hahah! The concept seems hilarious to me!! |
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| #34 - Posted 16 January 2009, 6:20 PM | |
Location: United States Join date: January 2009 Member #: 1933 Posts: 120 | RE: PUERTO RICO: STATEHOOD OR INDEPENDANCE, WHAT WOULD THIS MEAN FOR DR ?? T_T Edited on 1/16/2009 6:42 PM by S1CAR1O. ![]() |
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| #35 - Posted 16 January 2009, 6:21 PM | |
Location: United States Join date: January 2009 Member #: 1933 Posts: 120 | RE: PUERTO RICO: STATEHOOD OR INDEPENDANCE, WHAT WOULD THIS MEAN FOR DR ?? [QUOTE=S1CAR1O] [/QUOTE] gouletcolonial said: ciby you know I am well aware of what is required of congress for statehood to be accomplished ....It seems you want Congress to reject them for some unexplained reason ....ciby they wont and those two senators and 6 or 8 congressmen will be real heavy hitters and be the voice of all Spanish speakers in America and all the others Mexicans ,Dominicans ,Cubans etc will be fucking green with envy [/QUOTE] listen guy you really need to change ya attitude. One thing ive always disliked about many puerto ricans (not all ofcourse) is that they feel they are superrior to all other latinos because of their ties to the US or because they are better developed because of their ties to the US. i dont think anyone here would "ENVY" puerto rico if they become a state, because i dont think anyone here wants to see puerto rico do bad. You say we would be mad because the puerto ricans would be "the voice" of all hispanics in america ? well thats a stupid thing to say because puerto ricans have long been the "voice" of hispanics in america, they've been here decades before dominicans and cubans became common, as US citizens not illegals like mexicans (no offense to any mexicans). YOU as a puerto rican should be contributing to this forum by discussing with us what YOUR position on this subject is and wich direction youd like to see your countrymen take. instead of writing stupid things like we'd envy you or or how much better puerto ricans would be. The only reason i even braught up this subject is because its an intersting subject about OUR people (latinos over the world) that also affects many dominicans. [/QUOTE] ![]() |
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| #36 - Posted 16 January 2009, 6:33 PM | |
Location: United States Join date: January 2009 Member #: 1933 Posts: 120 | RE: PUERTO RICO: STATEHOOD OR INDEPENDANCE, WHAT WOULD THIS MEAN FOR DR ?? Quote: Aissedei previously said: Puerto Rico will never separate from the U.S. The vast majority of Puerto Ricans want to either become a state or remain as a commonwealth. There’s only, If I recall correctly, like 2 or 3% of the population that is actually registered as independentista party for elections and such. If it came to a forced choice of either separate or become a state they would most likely go for statehood. As far as paying taxes go, since I pay taxes in Puerto Rico, I can tell you that they’re a B#TCH here. I pay just as much or more in PR Taxes as I did in the states. Most likely the local taxes would lower to an equivalent level with other states, so paying federal taxes would be no big deal. Since the feds would then be supplying money for infrastructure and services that they don’t currently supply, most people would be better off. As far as making English a first language that is not true. There is no law that states people have to speak English. The only place where people are expected to speak English is in some Federal Government offices and tourist areas. It would actually make it more likely that the U.S. would have a legitimate reason to make Spanish a secondary official language (although not holding my breath). Someone previously used Hawaii as an example of the evil anglos taking over, well.. to be blunt people from the U.S. already have the right to move here and work just like they would in any state of the U.S. so I doubt that PR would suffer the same problems that Hawaii had with Anglos owning all the best land and such. It’s not like there’s a whole lot of agriculture here anyway. The only thing they’re likely to own is hotels and other companies which is already the case. Now the problem is why would the U.S. want PR…… It would just be a headache and cost a lot of money to upgrade the current governmental systems, transit, and other infrastructure and there’s very little return. As far as how would it effect the DR. If they become a state, no major change. If they were to separate the DR would have to deal with the Rican government directly for any type of political or trade agreements, etc. Apart from that, well then the boat people will have to float north and hit Florida or go through PR to the U.S.V.I !!! This is definetly true. i doubt a situation like hawaii would occur in PR since americans already have the right to move out there and "take over" and havnt yet so i guess thats a good sign. and the english thing is true, they would make english the main language on the island, schools would have to start teaching in english...but i dont think they'd want to eradicate spanish on the island..just make englush the main launguage. and i agree, many americans would probably see puerto rico as a headache...having to upgrade the whole country..with little benefit in return. this is why i see statehood as an unlikely but still possible future for puerto rico. but i do think statehood is more likely to be puerto ricos future then "independance" because there arent enough people there that WANT independance plus puerto rico is already so integrated into the US economy and its people. The US has grown accustomed to puerto ricans and purto ricans have grown accustomed to americans. Edited on 1/16/2009 6:41 PM by S1CAR1O. ![]() |
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| #37 - Posted 16 January 2009, 6:51 PM | |
Location: United States, Brooklyn Join date: December 2007 Member #: 40 Posts: 1862 | RE: PUERTO RICO: STATEHOOD OR INDEPENDANCE, WHAT WOULD THIS MEAN FOR DR ?? Quote: gouletcolonial previously said: ciby you know I am well aware of what is required of congress for statehood to be accomplished ....It seems you want Congress to reject them for some unexplained reason ....ciby they wont and those two senators and 6 or 8 congressmen will be real heavy hitters and be the voice of all Spanish speakers in America and all the others Mexicans ,Dominicans ,Cubans etc will be fucking green with envy Other latinos would be green with envy... REALLY. If puerto ricans have not made a lasting contribution that made them speak for all hispanics in the last century... then it's doubtful that they will become that voice in the 21 century... Mexicans are the largest group, Cubans are well establashied and fanancially well off, Dominicans are progressing at a fast pace considerint we started migrating in mass numbers in the late 80's and early 90's. Colombians are doing well, in fact better than people from the caribbean... They're all doing well and not under puerto rican leadership GC you overestimate your people's leadership, and underestimate other latino's will to become leaders in their own communities. Latin American is turning the other way, and a legacy of dictatorship has left the region; Demacracy is flourishing, not as the US had hoped it would be, and within 50 years the countries we know today would be so different politically and economically... So while puerto rico may enjoy the benefits of union witht the US, it doesn't mean that other countries would not progress or even surpass it. |
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| #38 - Posted 17 January 2009, 3:59 AM | |
Location: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me Join date: December 2007 Member #: 9 Posts: 13576 | RE: PUERTO RICO: STATEHOOD OR INDEPENDANCE, WHAT WOULD THIS MEAN FOR DR ?? Except for the nearly brain dead glimmertwin your responses are very intelligent....I am not Puerto Rican I have resided there in the past and for many years had close contact with businesses in San Juan....I am an American citizen who was born and raised in Canada I also have lived in Colombia and Spain and now reside in the beautiful Dominican Republic for the past 10 years and truly love all things Hispanic all countries and all peoples.....Glimmertwins adamant statement about Congress never approving Statehood is similar to an American Black saying there would never be a black president,he was obviously projecting his emotions....Puerto Rico guards and covets its cultural heritage very closely in spite of having been American for many decades and will continue to do so even after Statehood...So get ready for Puerto Rican statehood and get ready for a free and dynamic Cuba for Rauls days are numbered and ticking down as well ...The Spanish Antilles will have a new look in a short time and the DR will benefit from both these changes lets get ready to RUUMMMMMMBBBLLLEE |
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| #39 - Posted 17 January 2009, 5:35 AM | |
Location: United States Join date: January 2009 Member #: 1933 Posts: 120 | RE: PUERTO RICO: STATEHOOD OR INDEPENDANCE, WHAT WOULD THIS MEAN FOR DR ?? Quote: gouletcolonial previously said: Except for the nearly brain dead glimmertwin your responses are very intelligent....I am not Puerto Rican I have resided there in the past and for many years had close contact with businesses in San Juan....I am an American citizen who was born and raised in Canada I also have lived in Colombia and Spain and now reside in the beautiful Dominican Republic for the past 10 years and truly love all things Hispanic all countries and all peoples.....Glimmertwins adamant statement about Congress never approving Statehood is similar to an American Black saying there would never be a black president,he was obviously projecting his emotions....Puerto Rico guards and covets its cultural heritage very closely in spite of having been American for many decades and will continue to do so even after Statehood...So get ready for Puerto Rican statehood and get ready for a free and dynamic Cuba for Rauls days are numbered and ticking down as well ...The Spanish Antilles will have a new look in a short time and the DR will benefit from both these changes i didnt mean to make any false assumptions but it says that Viejo San Juan Calle Cristo is your "location". im curiouse to know though, how come having lived in so many diffrent parts of the world did you choose to stay in DR the last 10 years ?? i mean DR is a great place, i know since im from there, but its also a place with many UNNECESSARY hardships. why wouldnt you stay in san juan, colombia, canada, spain or the US ? and about puerto rico being a state, i dont know how likey that may be but i do hope they do become a state because i truly believe that would be their best option for their future. i think it would be better for PRs economic, political, and social future. i also believe this would benefit the US in that americans would become better associated with latinos and their culture. ![]() |
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| #40 - Posted 17 January 2009, 6:06 AM | |
Location: United States, New York City Join date: February 2008 Member #: 411 Posts: 4107 | RE: PUERTO RICO: STATEHOOD OR INDEPENDANCE, WHAT WOULD THIS MEAN FOR DR ?? Quote: CarlosFranco previously said: Quote: gouletcolonial previously said: ciby you know I am well aware of what is required of congress for statehood to be accomplished ....It seems you want Congress to reject them for some unexplained reason ....ciby they wont and those two senators and 6 or 8 congressmen will be real heavy hitters and be the voice of all Spanish speakers in America and all the others Mexicans ,Dominicans ,Cubans etc will be fucking green with envy Other latinos would be green with envy... REALLY. If puerto ricans have not made a lasting contribution that made them speak for all hispanics in the last century... then it's doubtful that they will become that voice in the 21 century... Mexicans are the largest group, Cubans are well establashied and fanancially well off, Dominicans are progressing at a fast pace considerint we started migrating in mass numbers in the late 80's and early 90's. Colombians are doing well, in fact better than people from the caribbean... They're all doing well and not under puerto rican leadership GC you overestimate your people's leadership, and underestimate other latino's will to become leaders in their own communities. Latin American is turning the other way, and a legacy of dictatorship has left the region; Demacracy is flourishing, not as the US had hoped it would be, and within 50 years the countries we know today would be so different politically and economically... So while puerto rico may enjoy the benefits of union witht the US, it doesn't mean that other countries would not progress or even surpass it. Valid points. Also, most puerto ricans on the island don't share the pan-latin identity that has formed in the states over the last few years. Hell, many of them don't see US born puerto ricans as their own. If they were to become a state their represantives would be just that, THEIR representatives. Goulet, as always you assume to much. "Don't ask me who's influenced me. A lion is made up of the lambs he's digested, and I've been reading all my life."-Charles de Gaulle |
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