SANTO DOMINGO.- The three train cars which arrived in the country to be used in the Santo Domingo Metro are of the latest generation in that type of transport used in Europe and more advanced than those used in Latin America, said Miguel Pedini, project manager of ALSTOM, the company contracted to build the rapid transit system slated to begin in February in the capital with 19, three-car trains.
"This is the most modern model we have made, this is the same train which is being used today in Barcelona, the last line of Barcelona is identical to this," he said while showing the cars at East Haina port.
Pedini said the 30-ton, steel and aluminum cars have global capacity of more than 200 seated passengers, a closed circuit camera system and the latest traction and braking system technology. "It has a system of crowns with bearings which is the most advanced we have in production. We have inner video-vigilance televisón cameras to control the station, the boarding and deboarding of people, by closed circuit to see that there aren’t security problems, of vandalism, theft or internal interferences."
Written by: DaniDr, 4 Jan 2008 11:26 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Nice train. I'd like to hear also that they're also the toughest they have, since they will need to be in order to sustain the conditions of the DR. Anyone know if information was released on the cost of mantaining theese cars?
From: United States, New Jersey
Very Nice trains indeed..
ALSTOM, is by far the worlds leading manufacturer's of trains in the world. The trains used by NJTRANSIT in New Jersey, and the MTA in New York are manufactured by them.
To answer your question DaniDR, am not sure any content was ever released concerning maintenance costs / budget. The PLD government knows better to release any information regarding cost indications.. These trains are not coming cheap; maintenance will come at a high price at the Dominican taxpayer’s expense..
But, let’s try to keep an open mind.. If the Metro does manage to fix or should I say minimize congestion in the Capital and that's a big IF. The cost would be well worth it going into the future. .Considering the obvious, that people will be able to afford to pay the fare and the government will provide the sufficient electrical demands.
Written by: Edward, 4 Jan 2008 2:53 PM
From: United States, Leominster, Massachusetts
This is history in the making, folks!!.. We are seeing progress before our very eyes!!!
Written by: cpone, 4 Jan 2008 3:15 PM
From: United States
Edward some people don't see progress with a rain system they still believe that flying cars are coming and that IT will be the solution. They aren't the brightest in the pack I can assure you.
Written by: tejada, 4 Jan 2008 4:05 PM
From: United States
I am open-minded and I like seeing my country achieving this kind of progress. Seriously, I'm happy; however, just wait about a year or two and go take another look at these trains. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I predict that the condition of these trains will be in very deplorable state just the same as those "guaguas" or "carros de concho" they have going around.
Written by: Escott, 4 Jan 2008 4:21 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Sosua/Cabrera
Mr Cpone,
What is your relationship to the DR? You have very strong opinions and very low opinions of people who disagree with you. It says you live in the US under your name yet you speak as if you think you know what goes on here but I can't figure it out. Please enlighten me.
Written by: cpone, 4 Jan 2008 5:07 PM
From: United States
I have property there, my parents do as well, much more than me. They hope to retire there, I have family there, I visit there as often as I can, I hope to someday retire there as well. So yes I do have a vested interest in my patria, I was born there, raised here but my heart will forever be Dominican.
From: United States
Hey thats what they said about all the mini buses / taxies imported to DR. I already know what the fate of these trains will be in DR, also I wonder if the maintance crews for the Metros will be $paid$ accordingly to there skilled trades for the up keeping of these trains. Will these nice new shining Trains start to look like the hap hazard Buses in the streets of DR, with homemade parts, and no AC? I'am pro Metro Trains but for this to work correctly you must have have the back up crew in place to make this Metro System enjoyable to everyone in the looooong run, and not just for show and tell.
Written by: Escott, 4 Jan 2008 5:36 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Sosua/Cabrera
Mr Cpone,
I also have property here and have retired here so we have that in comon. I just can't understand why we see things so differently for some reason.
I don't quite understand where you get your beliefs from though. This is a Banana Republic run by crooks and policed by crooks although I hope and wish it won't be forever. I just don't see the changes needed for the country to advance happening anytime soon but that is based on what I see with my own two eyes. Seems you look at things through rose colored glasses though.
I still own property in the US but other than wanting to sell it at some point couldn't care less about the US and am very thankful I am here full time for 8 years now.
Written by: ny4life, 4 Jan 2008 5:42 PM
From: United States, New York, NY
Escott, let's hope things are different or will be now. Hope for the best but expect the worse. This is a test to see where DR is heading too. Advancing or staying behind? we shall see.
Written by: cpone, 4 Jan 2008 5:56 PM
From: United States
I don't see things through rose colored glasses but ROME was not built in a day as they say, the system of government and economic stability that is needed will not come EVER from one presidential candidate or from 1 party. NEVER in a MILLION YEARS will it happen in the span of 1 presidents term.
Things take time, the train coming into DR is a good thing, with time it will develop into something better. PLEASE folks remember this, in the 80's the subway system in NYC was absolutely horrible, grafitti everywhere, thugs all over etc. France's system is full of holes, the system will NOT be perfect, but to disregard this progress because it wont be perfect is pretty asinine!
Written by: ny4life, 4 Jan 2008 6:08 PM
From: United States, New York, NY
I AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From: Dominican Republic, SPM
Pojected Cost 800,00,000 and now the Metro has surpassed 25 Billion! For who. Lalalalalala> Anyone who supports the Metro is a jeck or is part of the pad.
Written by: Escott, 4 Jan 2008 7:58 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Sosua/Cabrera
Mr Cpone
I never disregarded it because it wasn't perfect.
I disregarded it because they didn't do any studies here before the undertaking and having an engineering and building background I know that is critical. I also felt terrible that they took money from EDUCATION to put in it.
I think it is an awesome idea if there is MONEY for it without sacraficing the childrens future and if I had confidence in the soundness of the idea. NYC Subway system has 50 plus licensed engineers on staff and there are ALWAYS problems that need to be solved. My expartner in an Engineering firm was one of those people. Here they are just not up to the task and without studies I think it will be a danger to the users.
Thats why I am against it. Good idea with bad research and poor capabilities of finishing the project in good shape. Financing it from the education budget even minimally is a SIN.
Written by: ny4life, 4 Jan 2008 11:04 PM
From: United States, New York, NY
Escott,
I see where you are coming from. I hope those people capable of creating such a daring task took into account security for its users. I couldn't imagine them not using top engineers to develop such a project. Granted they might be all domestic. If anything goes wrong as far as the train sinking or caving in that should call for a lawsuit and jail time for the engineers and builders involvded. I hope that will never happen b/c honestly the whole project would not be worth it. Only time will tell if this is was constructed correctly.
As far as the metro goes, it was now or never.
From: United States, New Jersey
what maintence cost? they maintence free.
Written by: wents22, 5 Jan 2008 1:59 AM
From: United States
I agree with the construction of the Santo Domingo Metro. The system was planned to relieve the congestion of traffic, as well as to improve transportation and expand infrastructure. This will bring many positive effects to the city, like for example, reducing air pollution which severely affects productive time and health. i strongly support the Leonel Administration for taking such risk, to better improve the Dominican economy.
Written by: Euromax, 5 Jan 2008 2:25 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Bona, The holy land of the west
OHHH YOU PEOPLE, AGAIN SAYING NEGATIVE THINGS!!............... LOOOK hoow beutiful and modern this subway cars loook!!!.... If the goverment decided to build it , i might think that they know hat they are doing, right?? , if the problem is the freking Taxes, instead of being so lazy only talking about " platano con salami" & Politics, think about how to control the economic status!! and work all together!! PEOPLE!!!
E' pa lante que vamos!! " :b
From: Dominican Republic, SPM
Oh Boy look at the Autopisata - Did a wonderful job of relieving traffic east to west. But after 5 years it is falling apart. Concrete falling down and the road pulling apart. Crap construction! Crap engineers. And where and what studies were done. This Metro will serve no one. Also, besides Education- The hospitals have no medicine! How many people have died because LF has lied to the people again and continues to lie. Work with the people here is not an option! Domiincans know better. Oh yes; let us close the gas stations 1/2 Sat. and all day Sun. and save gasoline. Hellooooo Came up that we used 30% more gasoline. Damn, Domincans have no memory retention. Just look at LF before and all the damage he did! Go back to NYC LF . This is a failed Nation with a failed President!
Written by: Escott, 5 Jan 2008 8:34 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Sosua/Cabrera
Hahaha, I remember when they tried to close the gas stations 1/2 day Saturday and all day Sunday. Here on the North Coast it killed local tourism besides costing 30% more gasoline.
Hey it did create HUGH lines. You know how Dominicans react to lines, right? It was hilarious, another week of it and there would have been blood in the streets.
I agree that Leonel has been terrible. I wish it was different and I waited for positive change but it never came.
Written by: ny4life, 5 Jan 2008 12:52 PM
From: United States, New York, NY
I guess everyone here is a fan of Hipolito Mejia y el PRD. Come on people you know he was the worse president and a huge embarrassment to Dominicans all over the world. He's administration did nothing for DR and made the country worse. LF brought it back to life. Is he perfect, no? Is DR corrupt still, yes. It will take time and political will to change b/c we all know Dominicans are mostly greedy and looking to benefit themselves that mentally will change with political will and over time. No administration will cure that disease over night, it will take time b/c the population is speaking up and demanding a change. LF is the best candidate and has done the best job for DR. Very innovative and progressive in sending the DR into a more modernized stake.
Has his tactics been the best? no. Things need to be more transparent but honestly his administration is the only one buidling the country and looking towards the future.
From: United States, New Jersey
People, am sure we all as fellow Dominicans share the same hopes for our beloved Pueblo's and Nation ..
We should stop the finger pointing & critizism and post some SOLUTIONS ! ..
I challenge all of you to do that..
especially you; Mr. LADRONELyPENA
Personally I am not a fan of any party.. and do not plan to vote for any. But quite frankly, my two sense tells me that Leonel Fernandez is by far the better choice to lead the country into the future.. the PLD with all the crooks, thiefs, come solos, Etc.., still have the brightest people.. by far more educated and well spoken then the rest , they have demonstrated they can build good foreign relations which is very important for the Dominican Republic moving forward. At this point in our history, it is what it is..
Written by: dagtan, 5 Jan 2008 2:59 PM
From: United States
I only wish that Dominican authorities and the people think about the foundation of a sucessful nation. Yes, guys and all you know it is education. If you look at the U.S. for example, the country before wwII was not the most infleuntial or powerfull, but right after WWII and the GI bill, the U.S. became a highly edcuated nation and the rest is history. We should be concerned about developing the educational system in our country before bringing in technology that is way ahead of our technological ability. The technicians that would be doing heavy maintenance on these highly advance rail cars would be imported. As some of you mentioned, it takes time to build s self sufficient naton in which progress is in the minds of people. All in all, I am happy tht they are trying to ease the traffic, but this is yet another "carreta before the caballo" in the DR. All that money could have gone at revamping the educational system for the masess, and yet non of you mentioned that.
Written by: dagtan, 5 Jan 2008 3:04 PM
From: United States
The Dominican Republic budget for the education of the entire island was $140m US, for this particular year. There are small school districts here in the U.S. spending more than that. Even the communist Cuba invested more than that on their education system last year. According to UNICEF, Cuba out spent most of the caribbean nations in education. Democracy is the foundation of allowing people to progress and become sucessful and make their dreams come true, so why is a communist country out spending a democratic nation in education. Mind you that both island have similar population numbers. We must start shifting our pointing at the bad government, and point out to the educational system. And please do not mention about the private schools that cater to upper class and diplomats, they cost in year what the majority of dominicans eanr in 5 years. Wake up, a train does not make people smarter, but laziest.
Written by: Edward, 5 Jan 2008 5:27 PM
From: United States, Leominster, Massachusetts
I like what some guy said..."If the PRD doesn't like the Metro they can just take a concho and arrive at work 2 hours late with their clothes all wrinkled" LMAO
Written by: Escott, 5 Jan 2008 6:52 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Sosua/Cabrera
Mr Dagtan,
I have said all along one of the reasons I am against the Metro is because they took the money from the kids education to build it. I also said they did NO STUDIES about how to build it and what affects it would have and the effects on the safety of the passengers.
If these facts weren't facts I would be FOR the Metro.
Hippo was an embarrassment to the country and didn't do well for the country. Leonel is an equal embarrassment in my opinion. He is nothing more than a Hippo with Hair in my opinion. He cares not for the country but for himself and his legacy which is the Metro no matter how ill founded and at the wrong time.
I was hoping he would do good for the country and I waited as things got worse here thinking it will get worse before it improves and I haven't seen the improvements. Before Leonel leaves office there will be as many episodes of embarrassment as there was with Hippo.
Written by: wents22, 5 Jan 2008 8:08 PM
From: United States
Los enemigos de la Patria, por consiguiente nuestros, están todos muy acordes en estas ideas; destruir la Nacionalidad aunque para ello sea preciso aniquilar a la Nación entera.
-Los Trinitarios-
Written by: santanar, 5 Jan 2008 8:17 PM
From: United States
This president will be remember for bringing the metro to the capital, a hopefully the next head of state will connect that metro system with a train to the East and North coast of the country but please lets use some private investment instead of the people recourse.
Written by: josean, 6 Jan 2008 2:43 AM
From: United States
Maybe now you will be able to go from your dark house to your dark school, dark hospital or dark job quicker. Well may not job, there aren't any, but you get the idea!
The kids will be able to do their homework on the train, doctors can do bypass surgery and the girls can do their hair on the way home.
Come to think of it, yeah this is progress!
From: United States
As far as the cost for the 57 train wagons: 92,640,390 Euros.
Written by: dagtan, 6 Jan 2008 3:48 PM
From: United States
I really do not know how to say it, but if you look at the school budget for the white plains school district in Westchester county New york, you will find that their budget was apprx 190 million dollars for about 8 thousand students. Now the DR's budget for the 2007-2008 school was a grand total of 140 millions us dollars, for approx 1 million students. Once again, why is Cuba a communist country not benefiting from the U.S. favoritism and open market like the DR out spending DR in education and providing better housing than the DR for the masses. We can not be blind to these issues, we are a democracy most of you cry and cry, we have flag and we have a president, but what is the good of that when those position and conditions are not doing what they are suppose to do for the people. Remember, political positions are in place to do for the people what ever it takes to give them a better life, not to do for that particular politician and his family. They are there for the people.
Written by: dagtan, 6 Jan 2008 3:50 PM
From: United States
It seems like josean and I are small minority of realistic thinkers on this particular forum. lol
Written by: josean, 6 Jan 2008 7:00 PM
From: United States
Written by: dagtan, 6 Jan 2008 7:36 PM
From: United States
For those of you have ever travelled through JFK Airport, the rail system which BTW is all above ground took years and years of planning and when it was completed, it took months and months of testing and refining. If you see this METRO running before the summer of 2008, do not get on it, because it was clear that the project was rushed. The logisitics of the system need to be put in place and refine to meet the safety guidelines and for the electronic system to be calibrated to deal with the natural conditions they'll face in the topical climate such as DR. Also, the government is not taking in to account the training of the populace in using this sytem safely. Most people in DR have not rode an elevator by age 5, imagine requiring them to get on train day one.
From: United States
"Cynicism is the opiate of the people." Well, maybe not the exact quote, but true just the same. The subway is just one example of how cynicism becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. There is probably much to criticize regarding this project, and there will certainly be many problems resulting. Wouldn't it be nice if we never failed at anything? Certainly, if we never attempt to accomplish anything we will never have to worry about failing. We can just sit back and find fault with those who do attempt to create something worthwhile. There will always be cynics, and they have their role to fill, which is from the outside looking in, as society's peanut gallery. But let's not let cynicism become a contagion. Critical thinking is essential, cynicism is not.
From: United States
PLEASE HAVE BACK UP POWER!
Written by: dagtan, 8 Jan 2008 1:09 PM
From: United States
That is old news to me MAYIMBE. I still believe that trying to get this thing going prior to the summer of 08 is not putting the safety of the riders first. The system is a bit more complicated than the system recently built for JFK, so I hope they learned from the set backs that the engineer ran into when trying to rush the project.
From: United States
the columnist Huchi Lora requested the construction plans for the Metro, to ascertain what kinds of engineering plans were made to build the thing. i have no idea if he requested the Geographic Information Studies, which are used fo forecast ridership. the haste with which the project seems to have been undertaken would suggest that the necessary analysis to establish possible ridership was equally hastily done. if the subway ends up carrying very limited amounts of people per day, then it will not have achieved the objectives. the staten island system, SIRT, had a ridership projection of 54,000 per day when it was being built; today it struggles to get 15,000. the san jaun subway was projected for 80,000 by 2006, and 110,000 by 2010. the most it has ever carried is 40,000, and that was when it was free. today it is carrying 24,000. the metro guys say it will carry 200,000 per day, but i doubt it. i hope to write an opinion piece outlining the dynamics which have to be considered
From: United States
in the forecasts. in brief, we have to realise that it only goes in one direction, north-south, and therefore has no east-west coverage. secondly, like most subway systems, the stations are roughly a mile apart. people who work halfway between the stops will be reluctant to ride it and walk a half mile to work, especially when the carritos stop on demand. thirdly, what percentage of well heeled dominicans, the ones with cars, will be willing to leave their cars at home to ride alongside the masses? this may sound elitist, but the DR is a very classist society. if you doubt that, buy the sunday version of listin diario and pull out the society section. if they do decide to ride the subway, what provisions are made for parking their cars, provided they have to drive to the station? will there be park and rides, or on-street parking? because the fixed costs are so high, the operation will necessitate a high Contribution Margin to offset costs. ( the contribution margin in this case is
From: United States
the farebox revenue minus the variable operating costs.) if the revenues are 500 dollars, and the operating expenses are 400 dollars, we have a contribution margin of 100 dollars ( it is usually expressed as a percentage, but lets keep it simple) that 100 dollars goes to offset the fixed costs. it is obvious that if we have low ridership, we will have low contribution margins, and the thing will require massive subsidies. so it is not simply a matter of some people being against ''PROGRESS''. if this was a private enterprise venture, it would never have been undertaken in such a rush. the problem is that if it fails,it is not Leonel's money going down the drain. there are several pressing needs in this country, not the least of which is the woeful state of the education system. government is charged with the most judicious use of public funds. as Escott reminds us, if there was money left over after addressing the more pressing needs, by all means, give it a try. but this is the
From: United States
Dominican Republic, not Dubai or the Emirates; we do not have seemingly endless supplies of money, so we have to use what we have wisely
Written by: Edward, 8 Jan 2008 2:44 PM
From: United States, Leominster, Massachusetts
I don't know why people have to be so pessimistic. Don't worry...the Metro will be a success and by 2050 the DR will have like 30 lines and all of them Maglev!!!
Written by: dagtan, 8 Jan 2008 2:45 PM
From: United States
dreadloacks, El_Mayimbe for sure hates you too now. I am afraid of speaking realism on this forum, since there is a few that defend the island with their heart open and the mind closed. I have been saying it from the beggining, put the money into education, it is the only way that one we will be able to have a metro that rounds the island. Education = progress, prosperity, colaboration and finally the killing of systematic racism.
Written by: dagtan, 8 Jan 2008 2:47 PM
From: United States
Mr. Edward stop being sarcastic. lol
Written by: Edward, 8 Jan 2008 2:52 PM
From: United States, Leominster, Massachusetts
I'm not being sarcastic. I'm just an optimist. It upsets me that people criticize the metro so much, but I bet they will be the first ones to ride it!
"If the PRD doesn't like it they can take a concho to work"! LOL
Written by: DaniDr, 8 Jan 2008 3:06 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
From: United States
excuse me Edward, but there is a difference between pessimism and analysis. not because people have reservations about the outcome of events means they are pessimistic. if we all subscribed to your way of thinking, nobody would analyse anything; they would just start projects and hope for the best. the sad reality is that in the world of private enterprise, 80% of all startup projects fail within five years. and that is in the united states, with the might of resources and experience. nobody knows what are the parameters of any cost benefit analysis for this project. when private enterprise undertakes a project, the cost-benefit analysis is entirely encompassed by the balance sheet; if it is making a profit, then the benefits outweigh the costs. if it is losing money, the costs outweigh the benefits, and the company usually closes its doors. since government is not in the business of making a profit, the cost- benefit analysis includes the social benefits which flow from the project.
From: United States
let us, for matters of simplicity, consider the social benefits of the metro as 1) reducing traffic congestion 2) reducing atmospheric pollution 3) reducing fossil fuel useage. the government should ideally assign target values. let us say that the target is 5% across the board. if the targets are reached, then the project has conceptually broken even. if the targets are exceeded, then it is operating at a profit. if the targets are woefully underachieved, then it becomes questionable if the project should have been undertaken ,in preference to other pressing options. the problem i have is that they have given us overly optimistic figures of ridership. if ridership is low, then it stands to reason that reduction of traffic, pollution and fuel useage will also be low. the portion of subsidy needed will be exhorbitant. because of the high cost of electricity alone, the operating costs will be staggering; yet, because of the reality of economics, the fares will have to be low.
From: United States
the subsidy will have to come from somewhere, which means less money for other pressing needs. i simply say that it is unreasonable to expend all this money on a project which has very little universal reach; only a few people, relative to the population, can benefit from it at any given time. it does seek to achieve noble ends, such as reduction in fuel useage, but at what cost? can it be properly maintained with the talent pool we have? what provisions are in place if it derails? are the security provisions in place to protect the ridership from the same bad crime wave outcomes in the new york subways of the early 1990s? what effect will a crime spree have on ridership? all these issues can be subjected to sensitivity and regression analysis. i am only saying that i hope they were, because optimism is not enough on which to build a railroad
Written by: dagtan, 8 Jan 2008 4:43 PM
From: United States
Mr. Edward either you were being sarcastic or overly optimistic to the point fo reaching fantasy. As already mentioned, Germany is the leading country in the maglev technology and Europe's largest economy. BTW, they struggling to get this technology to work efficiently to the point of mass production. Dreadlocks, you will find a lot of people like Mr. Edward around, that the only job is to defend without any reasoning or critical thinking behind their defense. Remember, that many Dominicans think that because they are Dominican they have defend the island at all cost. Objectivity is something that is often missing in minds of many Dominicans and we have many here.
Written by: DaniDr, 8 Jan 2008 5:16 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
I actually found Edward's comment funny. Not bad to read that kind of comments every now and then :)
From: United States
actually, DaniDr, the irony of the issue is that Edward might find some PLD folks sharing a concho with the PRD guys when the electricity goes off
Written by: Escott, 9 Jan 2008 4:41 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Sosua/Cabrera
Real men in the DR have BIG SUVS Mr Dreadlocks!
I can't wait to see Dominicans Driving the trains. Cant wait till they stop the trains in both directions to have a conversation like they do with their cars. Wait till they decide to drive on the wrong side of the road because they "Want to". I wonder if they will put the lights on the train. Heck they never have lights on in their cars or motorcycles even at night:) I asked one guy why he didn't have lights and he said "Why do I need lights when everyone always has their brights on therefore they should see me without my lights on"!
This is definately going to be interesting. I wonder if they will let people on with Goats and Chickens? Perhaps Gas Tanks as well? Possibly you will also see people with refrigerators and stoves on the trains?
I can't wait to see these Dominicans waiting on line to purchase their tickets:) Seeing Dominicans having to wait for anything is hilarious.
From: United States
Obviously you wouldn't expect much from dominicans when you see us as a bunch of backward-thinking hillbillys. People advance and learn. I for one believe them to be more than that and know they can become much more.
And by the way, the Metro is not for people who drive SUV's. It's for those who depend on motoconchos and carros publicos.
From: United States
SUV's in Dr....now thats a biiiiiiiiig waste of gas, unless you own your own gas station in DR or are a drug dealer. The SUV will only last half of there life time in DR, something will always be breaking (bad roads) every few months. Than you have to deal with all the wacky auto shops who hire uncertify mechanics to work in the back, and at the same time the mechanic is making there own business deals behind there boss's back.
You know the more you think about it. It's cheaper to get around on the Metro. I say start building some more tracks, and start connecting the DR all around, and order 1,000 more shining cars.
Written by: Escott, 9 Jan 2008 6:21 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Sosua/Cabrera
El Mayimbe, how do you see Dominicans? I relate my thoughts to what I see. Do you not see the same things that I do?
Have you never seen 3 adults, 2 babies and a tank of gas on a 100 cc motorcycle? Have you not seen so many cars that are unfit to drive without lights that look like they are going down the street sideways because it has been in so many accidents it wasn't put back together right or should have been totaled in the first place?
Have you not been stopped by the police and reminded that it was Christmas time? Have you ever seen the police going the wrong way on a one way street without wearing a helmet on a Motorcycle?
And FINALLY do you think that everyone lives within a few blocks of the subway stations? How are people who DON'T live a few blocks from the Subway stations going to get there?
My attempts at humor have obviously failed with you but in my humor was a lot of truth which you also disregard.
I apologize.
Written by: DaniDr, 9 Jan 2008 6:34 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
@UnderCover: I kind of disagree with the SUV thing. If you need to travel or enjoy exploring the country, a SUV is a must (if you can afford it). With SUV I mean a Toyota Prado or similar, with good ride height and 4x4, no theese Mercedes, BMW and other crossovers/suv-cars. We have a Prado in the family with almost 200,000 Km on the ODO and it's rock solid after years of abuse.
The lack of good service is true, but it applies to all kind of services goods. With time you get to know where to bring your car for repair in the same way you know where to shop without getting ripped off.
Written by: DaniDr, 9 Jan 2008 6:37 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
From: United States
Escott, I apologize if I misread your words and took it offensively; keep in mind i'm only reading what you have to say and don't know what tone you say it with. I've heard many people that speak that way of dominicans and they mean it and they really believe that just about all dominicans are like that and to an extent, would see me that way without even knowing a thing about me except for the fact that I'm dominican. I'll assume you are not one of those.
With that said, a lot of that careless, livefree attitude is cultural and that's one of the things I like most (to an extent obviously). I'm currently living in the US (will be moving back to DR in a few months) and I in my opinion, the reason why kids here are so spoiled and...I can't think of a better word than "pussified"...excuse my language! is bc of this over-cautiousness that has become part of the American culture. I guess both have their pros and cons.
From: United States
By the way, so what if ppl go in the metro w/ chickens and goats? It goes with the territory...I see ppl here in NYC go in trains with dogs...
Written by: Escott, 9 Jan 2008 7:19 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Sosua/Cabrera
Stop you are killing me. You are comparing dogs to Goats?
I happen to be a goat farmer and I do have one goat who thinks she is a dog. When I am in the pasture she is by my side and heals when I walk or stop:) I have NEVER seen a dog on a NYC subway except for guide dogs and guide dogs are legal and accepted everywhere.
When I lived in the states I raised German Shepherds. I didn't want to tie them up outside because they were trained Guard Dogs so when I went in a store and they bitched I told them it was a guide dog and always kept my sun glasses on. I use to get such a kick out of that. My dogs were so well trained that they were always great and never caused a problem anyway.
I don't think I will ever be riding the metro since I live on the other side of the country and only go to the Capital if I have business to take care of so I have to drive there anyway. I couldn't care less if they took their pet alligators on the train but it will be a hoot to watch.
From: United States
I wasn't serious about my comment, but now that I think about it, it wouldn't be weird for a person in DR to have a goat as a pet but it would if a person had one in NY (and probably illegal) so again, it does sorta go with the territory. And by the way, the fact that guide dogs are legal everywhere doesn't matter...they are still dogs. Anyway, I don't know how much more I can bear talking about animals in trains. I do agree that it would be a worthwhile trip to see dominicans getting into the metro for the first time.
From: United States
well ,Escott, after reading your recent posts, i feel a little insulated from the naysayers who think i am pessimistic. let us clear up a few facts, which you touched on in your usual light hearted style. the first is the issue of distance. subways serve narrow corridors of population.in all orthodox transportation analysis, distances farther than a half mile away from a stop are not considered in the equation. this is even worse in the dr, where there are gazillions of carritos which stop where you tell them to. the second is the issue , as you light-heartedly describe it, of goats and propane tanks on the train. does anyone realistically believe that Doña Consuela Mercedes Hernandez Lopez Vega y Vega Oro y Plata is going to leave the volvo at home to seek out the singular pleasure of rubbing elbows with the lovely Belkis from Los Mina? not to mention the chulo of the aforementioned Belkis, carelessly belching salami and brugal fumes into the ear of this august socialite? i think not.
From: United States
and Mayimbe, the subway is for people with cars and SUVs. the object of the exercise is to get them to leave the cars at home and ride the metro. again, we have no Geographic Information Studies to determine what fraction of the traffic is carrito and what is private. the point is, like it or not, it took less than a year from the day Leonel decided on the metro as a good idea, until it was undertaken. you cannot plan projects like this in a few months. in countries like the USA and Canada, studies take between 8 and 10 years before the project is attempted. Leonel rushed it through because he wants his name and picture on the inauguration plaque, plain and simple!!!
Written by: Edward, 11 Jan 2008 12:51 PM
From: United States, Leominster, Massachusetts
Even though they rushed it I'm confident everything will be fine!
From: United States
guess what Edward? i started off thinking you were serious in your commentary, and was a little unsettled by some things you said. i have now changed my position, realising that you really do post for comic relief and alarm. so i no longer get distressed when you make ludicrous remarks, because, apparently, you do it with a mission. consider me amused!
Written by: dagtan, 11 Jan 2008 1:11 PM
From: United States
I tend to agree with you dread, but a the same time I am extremely concerned with such commnets. The type of comments posted by Mr. Edward are fairly similar to the ones you here in the streets of Santiago and Santo Domingo. People with limited academic skills will believe what ever another tells them or what ever they hear as the truth. Remember, that this type of behavior can even take hold countries such as Nazi Germany, where ordinary Germans were exterminating thousands of Jews from monday throught saturday and on sunday go to church. They actually believe that it was the right thing to do since everyone else and the government was telling them such things. The sad thing about Mr. Edward's comments is tha they are not genuine, but transplanted from certain conversation among Dominicans and on many diner tables on Dominican houses whereever, they are today.
From: United States
you see, Dagtan, the only thing more scary is when Edward states that despite all the arguments which suggest that the metro is a horrible lapse in judgement, he is confident all will be well. this is not like taking a girl out on a date and hoping to get lucky at the end of the night; this is dependent on factors which can be reduced to analysis. when the analysis shows that the chances of success are slim to none, no amount of optimism means a hill of beans!
Written by: Escott, 11 Jan 2008 4:42 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Sosua/Cabrera
I also read many of the comments and just don't get it. When I talk about Dominicans and I only talk the truth I insult a Dominican York which of course I don't try to do. Matter of fact he is very well spoken and probably very intelligent. Only problem I have with this gentleman is that he is either very Nieve or in Denial.
Although my comments were said in jest which they were trying to keep the crazyness of this country light there was not only plenty of truth in what I said but were exact observations that I haave seen. I made light of it and insulted someone but it was true.
Go figure I guess I am a redneck Dominican since I raise goats and sheep and have a Dominican Passport:)
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ALSTOM, is by far the worlds leading manufacturer's of trains in the world. The trains used by NJTRANSIT in New Jersey, and the MTA in New York are manufactured by them.
To answer your question DaniDR, am not sure any content was ever released concerning maintenance costs / budget. The PLD government knows better to release any information regarding cost indications.. These trains are not coming cheap; maintenance will come at a high price at the Dominican taxpayer’s expense..
But, let’s try to keep an open mind.. If the Metro does manage to fix or should I say minimize congestion in the Capital and that's a big IF. The cost would be well worth it going into the future. .Considering the obvious, that people will be able to afford to pay the fare and the government will provide the sufficient electrical demands.
What is your relationship to the DR? You have very strong opinions and very low opinions of people who disagree with you. It says you live in the US under your name yet you speak as if you think you know what goes on here but I can't figure it out. Please enlighten me.
I also have property here and have retired here so we have that in comon. I just can't understand why we see things so differently for some reason.
I don't quite understand where you get your beliefs from though. This is a Banana Republic run by crooks and policed by crooks although I hope and wish it won't be forever. I just don't see the changes needed for the country to advance happening anytime soon but that is based on what I see with my own two eyes. Seems you look at things through rose colored glasses though.
I still own property in the US but other than wanting to sell it at some point couldn't care less about the US and am very thankful I am here full time for 8 years now.
Things take time, the train coming into DR is a good thing, with time it will develop into something better. PLEASE folks remember this, in the 80's the subway system in NYC was absolutely horrible, grafitti everywhere, thugs all over etc. France's system is full of holes, the system will NOT be perfect, but to disregard this progress because it wont be perfect is pretty asinine!
I never disregarded it because it wasn't perfect.
I disregarded it because they didn't do any studies here before the undertaking and having an engineering and building background I know that is critical. I also felt terrible that they took money from EDUCATION to put in it.
I think it is an awesome idea if there is MONEY for it without sacraficing the childrens future and if I had confidence in the soundness of the idea. NYC Subway system has 50 plus licensed engineers on staff and there are ALWAYS problems that need to be solved. My expartner in an Engineering firm was one of those people. Here they are just not up to the task and without studies I think it will be a danger to the users.
Thats why I am against it. Good idea with bad research and poor capabilities of finishing the project in good shape. Financing it from the education budget even minimally is a SIN.
I see where you are coming from. I hope those people capable of creating such a daring task took into account security for its users. I couldn't imagine them not using top engineers to develop such a project. Granted they might be all domestic. If anything goes wrong as far as the train sinking or caving in that should call for a lawsuit and jail time for the engineers and builders involvded. I hope that will never happen b/c honestly the whole project would not be worth it. Only time will tell if this is was constructed correctly.
As far as the metro goes, it was now or never.
E' pa lante que vamos!! " :b
Hey it did create HUGH lines. You know how Dominicans react to lines, right? It was hilarious, another week of it and there would have been blood in the streets.
I agree that Leonel has been terrible. I wish it was different and I waited for positive change but it never came.
Has his tactics been the best? no. Things need to be more transparent but honestly his administration is the only one buidling the country and looking towards the future.
We should stop the finger pointing & critizism and post some SOLUTIONS ! ..
I challenge all of you to do that..
especially you; Mr. LADRONELyPENA
Personally I am not a fan of any party.. and do not plan to vote for any. But quite frankly, my two sense tells me that Leonel Fernandez is by far the better choice to lead the country into the future.. the PLD with all the crooks, thiefs, come solos, Etc.., still have the brightest people.. by far more educated and well spoken then the rest , they have demonstrated they can build good foreign relations which is very important for the Dominican Republic moving forward. At this point in our history, it is what it is..
I have said all along one of the reasons I am against the Metro is because they took the money from the kids education to build it. I also said they did NO STUDIES about how to build it and what affects it would have and the effects on the safety of the passengers.
If these facts weren't facts I would be FOR the Metro.
Hippo was an embarrassment to the country and didn't do well for the country. Leonel is an equal embarrassment in my opinion. He is nothing more than a Hippo with Hair in my opinion. He cares not for the country but for himself and his legacy which is the Metro no matter how ill founded and at the wrong time.
I was hoping he would do good for the country and I waited as things got worse here thinking it will get worse before it improves and I haven't seen the improvements. Before Leonel leaves office there will be as many episodes of embarrassment as there was with Hippo.
-Los Trinitarios-
The kids will be able to do their homework on the train, doctors can do bypass surgery and the girls can do their hair on the way home.
Come to think of it, yeah this is progress!
http://www.elcaribecdn.com.do/art....0028419D932FC7096EB&Seccion=3
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=565881
"If the PRD doesn't like it they can take a concho to work"! LOL
For those who don't know what Maglev is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maglev_train
I can't wait to see Dominicans Driving the trains. Cant wait till they stop the trains in both directions to have a conversation like they do with their cars. Wait till they decide to drive on the wrong side of the road because they "Want to". I wonder if they will put the lights on the train. Heck they never have lights on in their cars or motorcycles even at night:) I asked one guy why he didn't have lights and he said "Why do I need lights when everyone always has their brights on therefore they should see me without my lights on"!
This is definately going to be interesting. I wonder if they will let people on with Goats and Chickens? Perhaps Gas Tanks as well? Possibly you will also see people with refrigerators and stoves on the trains?
I can't wait to see these Dominicans waiting on line to purchase their tickets:) Seeing Dominicans having to wait for anything is hilarious.
And by the way, the Metro is not for people who drive SUV's. It's for those who depend on motoconchos and carros publicos.
You know the more you think about it. It's cheaper to get around on the Metro. I say start building some more tracks, and start connecting the DR all around, and order 1,000 more shining cars.
Have you never seen 3 adults, 2 babies and a tank of gas on a 100 cc motorcycle? Have you not seen so many cars that are unfit to drive without lights that look like they are going down the street sideways because it has been in so many accidents it wasn't put back together right or should have been totaled in the first place?
Have you not been stopped by the police and reminded that it was Christmas time? Have you ever seen the police going the wrong way on a one way street without wearing a helmet on a Motorcycle?
And FINALLY do you think that everyone lives within a few blocks of the subway stations? How are people who DON'T live a few blocks from the Subway stations going to get there?
My attempts at humor have obviously failed with you but in my humor was a lot of truth which you also disregard.
I apologize.
The lack of good service is true, but it applies to all kind of services goods. With time you get to know where to bring your car for repair in the same way you know where to shop without getting ripped off.
http://www.inagotable.com/stor/IngAlbums/9/ch/635_475x356_default.jpg
http://www.inagotable.com/stor/IngAlbums/9/ch/622_475x356_default.jpg
http://www.inagotable.com/stor/IngAlbums/9/ch/636_475x356_default.jpg
With that said, a lot of that careless, livefree attitude is cultural and that's one of the things I like most (to an extent obviously). I'm currently living in the US (will be moving back to DR in a few months) and I in my opinion, the reason why kids here are so spoiled and...I can't think of a better word than "pussified"...excuse my language! is bc of this over-cautiousness that has become part of the American culture. I guess both have their pros and cons.
I happen to be a goat farmer and I do have one goat who thinks she is a dog. When I am in the pasture she is by my side and heals when I walk or stop:) I have NEVER seen a dog on a NYC subway except for guide dogs and guide dogs are legal and accepted everywhere.
When I lived in the states I raised German Shepherds. I didn't want to tie them up outside because they were trained Guard Dogs so when I went in a store and they bitched I told them it was a guide dog and always kept my sun glasses on. I use to get such a kick out of that. My dogs were so well trained that they were always great and never caused a problem anyway.
I don't think I will ever be riding the metro since I live on the other side of the country and only go to the Capital if I have business to take care of so I have to drive there anyway. I couldn't care less if they took their pet alligators on the train but it will be a hoot to watch.
Although my comments were said in jest which they were trying to keep the crazyness of this country light there was not only plenty of truth in what I said but were exact observations that I haave seen. I made light of it and insulted someone but it was true.
Go figure I guess I am a redneck Dominican since I raise goats and sheep and have a Dominican Passport:)