SANTOD DOMINGO.- President Leonel Fernandez today said Dominican Republic has the legal framework to fight the practice of corruption, but cautioned that it’s an evil which even the World Bank hasn’t been able to eliminate it.
Speaking in the panel organized by the Institutionality and Justice Foundation (Finjus), Fernandez said the issue must be confronted, although acknowledged the problem’s complexity.
When asked of the possibility of reforming the General Accounting Law to make it independent of the Executive Branch, the chief executive said it’s not relevant to fighting corruption. "There are diverse models, in Ecuador it’s independent, but that hasn’t solved the problem of corruption,” he said, adding that he didn’t see an advantage of one system over another.
The Head of State spoke in the university UNPHU campus as part of Finjus’ panels on the proposals by the three major party candidates, with the opposition’s Amable Aristy and Miguel Vargas having spoke last week.
When Aida Consuelo Hernandez, of the education organization EDUCA, asked him what type of support he would need from civil society to help fight corruption, Fernandez said only economic and social development can succeed in reducing its presence.
“Corruption is an unending process, no society eliminates it completely, Haiti is seen as the most corrupt country and it’s also the poorest, Bolivia is second and it’s also the second poorest,” he said, noting that the least corrupt nations are Sweden, and Finland, which are also among the richest.
“Chile is see as the least corrupt in Latin America, because it’s also the richest, so if there isn’t economic and social development. Corruption would diminish if development is reached.”
Written by: buenoha, 29 Apr 2008 11:39 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
A poor and hungry stomach cannot afford morality. Morality comes at too high a price sometimes.
Social progress and a better quality of life will end corruption, but at the same time in large part it is precisely corruption which is impeding people to advance on the social ladder towards a better future.
So there is a vicious cycle of poverty and corruption which can only be overcome over time and with a huge effort from all spheres of society. Zero-tolerance for corruption should be the main approach, and that effort should go hand in hand with social security for the poor. Reliable energy supply, good social housing, good infrastructure and good education and health will be the main points to work at next.
Written by: muchacho, 29 Apr 2008 12:56 PM
From: United States, New York City
Once again, buenoha...I agree.
Mr. Fernandez is sending mixed signals. Or maybe he's just sending the right signals because his comments can easily be misconstrued to mean that he is willing to accept a certain level of corruption.
I find his choice of words very telling. To say "diminshed" instead of "eliminated", an "unending process" instead of "a transitory state"? The man is no idiot. He knows very well the power that words can convey and he is effectively creating enough wiggle room for himself and others.
From: United States Virgin Islands, Christiansted.from the bar at the Comanche
its called reality
From: United States
You can try to control corruption but you will never elimanated completely same as the drugs in this world. The money involved is amazing. There's a saying money talks and bullshit walks. As long as money is involved it will never be elimanted.
From: United States, New York City
If he speaks practically he is criticized; if he'd made a speech promising to eliminate it he would be criticized.
Written by: BASTA, 29 Apr 2008 4:12 PM
From: Dominican Republic, SPM
Well of course he should know. He grew up in NYC were corruption is Rife from the Police-fire dept and Health and hospital corp and housing inspectors and on down the line.
Written by: muchacho, 29 Apr 2008 4:50 PM
From: United States, New York City
You are all correct. But the implied message is what I'm getting at. It would be utopian to believe that corruption would disappear entirely. But as president, he should make sure that he is unequivocally against it. His choice of words would lead anyone to belieive otherwise.
But he is a politician. Politicians are not known to talk in absolute terms.
Written by: Escott, 29 Apr 2008 6:49 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Sosua/Cabrera
Basta,
the difference from NYC and the DR is that in NYC they WILL prosecute someone who is guilty and if they know about it. In the DR it is forgiven by the next guy in office. That way they know they WON'T be prosecuted when they leave office. Leonel is just as bad as Hippo and maybe worse but he won't be prosecuted either. Corruption is so accepted in the Dominican Republic it is a way of life. Here the way out of the ghetto is to become a Polititian and not a Baseball or basketball player. HORRIBLE as it may seem it is the way of life here. Discrimination? If you are white you will pay double and if you get into an accident you must pay whether the person that rear ended you has a license or insurance or not.
What a flucked up country we have here and they wonder why people are affraid to invest here?
From: United States Virgin Islands, Christiansted.from the bar at the Comanche
Charge em double and give em nuthin........that is engraved on the country coat of arms
From: Dominican Republic
I have the good fortune to teach english,gratis,to children between 16 and 18 every tuesday and by coincidence our subject today was " what would you do first if you were the President". The overwhelming first answer from the students was that they would fight all the corruption in this country and secondly they would try to eliminate the juvenile gangs and they would give money and health services to the poor . All the answers were in english of course but some wrote the same points in spanish and the students gave examples of corruption at various levels of administration.
I was surprised that young students were so aware of the three major problems in this country , corruption, poor education and a disproportionate distribution of wealth in the population and , if the quotes from the President are accurate, then I think they are disappointing.
Is it that poverty causes coruption or is coruption a cause of poverty ?..I tend to favour the latter (eg Zimbabwe).
From: United States
Reality between New york and DR is not the aggressive Prosecutors or legal hound dogs etc., It simply lies in the the fact that the individuals that settled in New England were much more intelligent than the idiots that settled in DR. And I agree you will never eliminate corruption. You can control it and hope to tame it, but like its cannibalistic cousin capitalism, it will always lies in the shadows of ones own interest.
From: United States
BABOSO, As a President and Leader of any country, you mena what you say, and say what you mean, all your staff will follow, but who will listen to a "THIEF".
Written by: Patricia, 30 Apr 2008 6:15 AM
From: Dominican Republic
What came first ? ...the egg or the chicken ?
are the Dominicans so corrupt because they are so pure, or are the so pure because everybody is corrupt ?...something to think about !
From: United States Virgin Islands, Christiansted.from the bar at the Comanche
this proves the that the recipe for the famous Pollo Dominicano is authentic ,It starts ........................................... 1st steal a chicken, there after is seasoning and cooking times
Written by: Belial, 30 Apr 2008 11:44 AM
From: United States, Texas
"You can control it and hope to tame it, but like its cannibalistic cousin capitalism, it will always lies in the shadows of ones own interest."
0000
Corruption is capitalism or, at least, a form of capitalism, that benefits from breaking the rules of "fair" play or breaking bourgeois laws on "fair" competition chiefly among elements of the capitalist class in pursuit of the complete looting of the state treasury.
In corruption, the capitalist and the cappie want-to-be expose themselves vividly and unmistakably as a thief and as a parasite.
Can these thieves and parasites be eliminated?
Oh yes, of course.
But it will take a while.
Written by: Belial, 30 Apr 2008 12:08 PM
From: United States, Texas
Corruption, they say, is both an act and a feeling.
The act is stealing the assets of the state.
The feeling is a degree of pleasure, that often rises in intensity to a state of joy, that either precedes or accompanies or follows the act of stealing the assets of the state.
The act is sometimes and by some people viewed as a crime. But the feeling ... better known as a greed for state assets ... is seen only as an immorality, a vice, or, more piously, a sin.
Does the elimination of corruption entail or involve only the act?
Some people who covet improperly the assets of the state do not regularly perform the act of stealing the assets because these people are strong or afraid. From time to time, even these strong or timid people are overcome with an uncontrollable urge to steal the assets of the state and they suffer a momentary criminal and moral failure.
How do we eliminate this almost irresistible feeling that is so closely connected with the act?
Written by: Belial, 30 Apr 2008 12:09 PM
From: United States, Texas
"Corruption, they say, is both an act and a feeling."
0000
As in "You are a corrupt person even though you don't steal."
Written by: Poeta25, 30 Apr 2008 12:29 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Another reminder of corruption at it's best. Fernandez redefines the Balaguerian political thought of "Corruption stops at my door" to Fernandez's own more modern concept of "Corruption starts at my door" where as Balaguer allowed a more controlled corruption, Fernandez propagates an unwieldy corrupt system of politicians.
Final questions to think about corruption at it's greatest level and yet it's the least reported: Fundacion Global. Who owns it, how was it funded and how does it continue to become one of the richest foundations in all of the Dominican Republic without outwardly showing itself to be a foundation of just merit?
From: United States
Regarding Poeta25, 30 Apr 2008 12:29 PM
How on earth can you say that "Balaguer allowed a more controlled corruption".
Balaguere was the Godfather of corruption. He created a farrago of corruption more turbid than anything Trujillo or his predecessors could have created. Balaguer blessed and encouraged all corruptive practices as long as they did not bear his name. Though he cannot be fully blamed for our current social state, he is responsible for propagating corruption and ignorance, and for depriving The Dominican people of dignity, respect, and success specifically at a time when all the forces and elements were in place to do just the opposite.
Written by: juliony, 30 Apr 2008 1:17 PM
From: United States, New YOrk
After the death of our benefactor El Generalisimo Doctor Rafael Leonidas Trujillo, we have been going in a downhill.. more debt.. more pobresa, more hambre, more violencia, high unemployment, less public services...
Corruption would never end in the DR... it is in our blood now to be corrupt and to invade someone else property and built a house and no pay for the land. Or to use someone else name and sell their property. or to steal electricity by connecting a wire.. or stealing someone cows and just leaving the bones, skin and blood in the farm.. or empty someone else bank account and use that money for your husband business, and when the bank account owner's finds out, shoot them in the chest...
Do you think we still have hope??
I used to believe our country would change one day... but when.. not today or tomorrow.. maybe in another 500 years. I would be dead by then..and resting in Hawaii... ( I could not trust the cementery either.. They are corrupt too..)
Written by: BASTA, 30 Apr 2008 2:11 PM
From: Dominican Republic, SPM
Escott,
Sometimes they will prosecute – Dollars talk and bullshit walks. Anyway corruption and or lobbying are endemic in Washington and NYC. Maybe ½ of 1% percent are caught and than 20% are prosecuted.
Fact: The Brooklyn DAs Office sees more payoff monies flowing through its office than any other branch in NY.
Written by: Poeta25, 30 Apr 2008 2:15 PM
From: Dominican Republic
@juliony: if we start with honest politicians i'd give the country 30 decades befores you saw stability, the question is, when will we get an honest generation of politicians? that's the trick to any growing society, to maintain the level of honesty higher than that of corruption.
Written by: Poeta25, 30 Apr 2008 2:15 PM
From: Dominican Republic
@ladronazo:
Ohh believe me i know just how deep Balaguer's corruption ran, i'm just saying it was more controlled, just like it was even more controlled under Trujillo. I was just comparing Fernandez to Balaguer not Balaguer to everyone else. If you check the economic levels and compare, you can see that Balaguer controlled more the economy, how did he do this? easy He controlled the poverty levels and kept the vast majority of the poor feeling "satisfied" with their poverty, It was his political genius at using murder, corruption of both church and state for controlling the political and social elites. I'm not in any way saying Balaguer was better morally, but i can assure you things were "safer" under him than they are with Leonel, just look at crime levels.
From: United States
"just like it was even more controlled under Trujillo. "
At the time of his death Trujillo was worth 800, 000, 000 US 1961 Dollars, billions in today's dollars. He sure as hell didn't come into power with all, or even a substantial percanetage, of that money. Corruption wasn't under control under Trujillo. Trujillo WAS corruption personified. Corruption was streamlined under his regime. That's all that could be said on that. As for Balaguer. Let's not even get into all the illicit fortunes that were acquired by Balaguer's coterie. Balaguer's regime was as corrupt as they come. Do not fool yourselves into thinking otherwise.
http://www.chomsky.info/books/washington02.htmThere's a link that discusses Balaguer's initial 12 years (the article was written in 79 and hence a contemporary view of said regime). Get an idea of who this man was and what he represented to our people. His regime was detrimental to say the least.
From: United States
History will not be kind to Balaguer, mark my words. Un dia yo voy a visitar la tumba de el viejo ciego aquel, pero le aseguro a ustedes que no sera para dejar rosas.
From: United States
Well now your pinning the Dominican People between Scylla and Charybdis. Which would you prefer?
Balaguer depriving Dominicans of Dignity, Education, Purpose, and Opportunity by blinding their misery with bountiful food and meaningless government jobs.
Or a government equally corrupt that deprives people of food but can provide forward thinking increased social services vision, sustainable growth and a "perception" of equality and social prosperity.
...................Mama Always Said Life Was Like A Box of Chocolate. You Never Know What You're Going To Get!
(Forrest Gump)
Written by: Belial, 30 Apr 2008 2:58 PM
From: United States, Texas
"Corruption would never end in the DR... it is in our blood now to be corrupt and to invade someone else property and built a house and no pay for the land. Or to use someone else name and sell their property. or to steal electricity by connecting a wire.. or stealing someone cows and just leaving the bones, skin and blood in the farm.. or empty someone else bank account and use that money for your husband business, and when the bank account owner's finds out, shoot them in the chest... "
000o
In the name of God or the Nazarene, what you write is non-conceptual.
Corruption is not all stealing or stealing without limitations.
Corruption is only stealing the assets of the state. Corruption is political stealing.
You blame corruption unjustly for thefts it had nothing to do with; that is, thefts completely in the private sectors.
How can you do this?
This is neither fair, just, legal nor moral.
You should apologize to corruption for exaggeration.
Written by: Poeta25, 30 Apr 2008 3:03 PM
From: Dominican Republic
@cibaeño75 I agree with what you say, history will not be kind to Balaguer. Maybe I mispoke when I said "controlled corruption" In no way i'm i not saying that the atrocities Trujillo and Balaguer committed were small. All i'm trying to get accross is the fact that no one stole or did anything major without the straight consent of either men. Both Trujillo and Balaguer had hit squads and by "control" crime was low because only the hit squads were doing most of the damage and both men allowed a certain "elite group" to accumulate wealth, again though it was more streamlined not as overboard as it is today with everybody and their mama being offered hush money or being bought off politically.
Balaguer is what i consider the architect of modern Dominican ignorance, again i agree history will not be kind. Just reading "Un Cortesano en la era de Trujillo" gives you a good look at the times and the rise to power. and obviously also Balaguer's famous "blank page".
From: United States
Cibaeño: What sickened me most about his death was the multitude of people that cried and praised him as if it was the second resurrection of Christ. I hate to say this, I never wish death on anyone. But upon hearing about his death I felt a great sensation of relief. I felt that now "We" can move on.....
I had wish, it should have happened much sooner.
Written by: Poeta25, 30 Apr 2008 3:07 PM
From: Dominican Republic
@Belial :
You should apologize to corruption for exaggeration.
LMAO...LOL... jejeje...good one..
From: United States
Belial:
Somewhere it is written:
"Every-man is conceived in sin, and born unto corruption"
Written by: juliony, 30 Apr 2008 3:47 PM
From: United States, New YOrk
Cibaeno75,
Trujillo had that account of $800 Million Dollars, thats true.. out of that account he paid the national and international debt. He bought Citibank to stablish our Central Bank. at the end he had 800 Million Dollars only $15 million were taken out of the country going to Spain and Miami. The rest of the money was left in the Dominican Republic and a group of politicians and business people took the rest.
Thanks to Balaguer, I was born in the Dominican Republic... beware "la tumba del viejo ciego" is in plan to be moved to a secure place.
Written by: juliony, 30 Apr 2008 4:00 PM
From: United States, New YOrk
Belial,
a Coronel invaded my property in Samana, built a house and tried to sell the property without
buying the land. Another friend of the family was forced out of his own house to build a school. The property later was sold to a consorcio de invercionista en La Romana...
In the DR corruption is running everywhere.. desde el gobierno hasta el individuo en la calle.
From: United States
"Thanks to Balaguer, I was born in the Dominican Republic.."
LOL..apo' fue Balague quien te pario entonce'...julio, your breakdown of Trujillo's finances are naive at best..He didn't use HIS money to pay off the national debt, he used state money. That 800, 000, 000 I cited was an estimate on the PERSONAL fortune of Trujillo that was arrived at AFTER Trujillo's death.
"beware "la tumba del viejo ciego" is in plan to be moved to a secure place. "
If that's true then it just lends weight to all I've been saying. Why even bother moving him if he was so great and beloved? Obviously he has a significant number of detractors who know all to well what he was about.
From: United States
"a Coronel invaded my property in Samana, built a house and tried to sell the property without
buying the land."
Tu amigo Balaguer y el animal de Trujillo son los culpables de que exista semejante mentalidad en la republica atraves de nuestros oficiales militares. You were a victim of theirs without even realizing it.
Written by: juliony, 30 Apr 2008 4:16 PM
From: United States, New YOrk
I never said his money.. ofcourse it was state money. I know the family only took $15 million.
Balaguer was not quien me pario.. but he allowed my family to move back to the Dominican Republic.
From: United States
"but he allowed my family to move back to the Dominican Republic"
Now let me ask you this. Why should you require any man's permission to touch the soil you were born on? You yourself are revealing the despotic nature of the Balaguer regime for making such a statement. 15 million doesn't even begin to cover it. Trujillo had huge dollar figures in foreign bank accounts that dwarf that figure you just gave. Look it up.
Written by: Belial, 30 Apr 2008 4:23 PM
From: United States, Texas
"Somewhere it is written [ the celebrated Zionist book on divine literature]:"
"Every-man is conceived in sin, and born unto corruption"
0000
This charming tale implies one of three things; either:
(1) Adam wasn't a man, or
(2) Adam wasn't conceived, or
(3) Adam was born unto corruption and sin.
Well, (1), (2), and (3) are, of course, all lies.
As you know, there was nothing sinful and corrupt about Adam's birth which was more immaculate than that of the Nazarene, therefore it's a big lie ... 5000 years old ... that "Every-man is conceived in sin, and born unto corruption"
By the way, if Adam "was conceived in sin, and born unto corruption," then the big boss of the divine beings, a certain God, is sinful and corrupt, because the Zionist book of divine literature says that Adam was created in the image of this highly important divine being.
From: United States
FYi: When Trujillo was assassinated he died 7th richest man in the World. During the 60's era this was an immense fortune. Unconscionable for a dictator of such a small country.
Written by: juliony, 30 Apr 2008 5:03 PM
From: United States, New YOrk
Ladronazo,
Fortune-- counted the Sugar Cane companies, the electrical companies the casinos, the cerveceria nacional, la tabacalera... those companies are still in the Dominican Republic. the state had a little over one billion when he was assassinated and the family took $15 millones en Dolares the rest still in the DR taken by families that used to work Trujillo. if the Dictator is dead the people would not be able to know if someone else took the money.. check the checks that cleared after his dead, we still have copies unless misteriosamente se desaparecieron..
Written by: juliony, 30 Apr 2008 5:08 PM
From: United States, New YOrk
Yes he had money in foreign banks I know that.. but those account were frozen.. by the usa.. after his dead.. Trujillo was charge with trying to kill Bentancourt from Venezuela..
you can check the NYT or archives.. you will find the information there..
From: United States
from a july 1961 Time article discussing the trujilos:
"Even a few bits and pieces of the billion-dollar Trujillo fortune.."
from a 1964 Time articel,AFTER the goat got his:
"Rhadames and three others of the high-living Trujillo clan suddenly face a court fight over the enormous fortune-estimated at something like $100 million—that they carried out of the Dominican Republic between 1930 and 1961,when the Trujillo reign ended."
No one was fighting over 15 million in 1964.Look at the zeros.Time magazine was just quoted at putting Trujillo's fortune at a billion shortly after his death.No one knew exactly what these people had accumulated but it was something astronomical in its day and there sure as hell wasn't only 15 million when all was said and done.What you're refering to is an EMBARGO voted upon by the OAS against the Dominican nation because of the Betancourt incident,not unlike the type of embargo cuba has been undergoing for some time. You're confusing two different issues.
Written by: juliony, 1 May 2008 1:18 PM
From: United States, New YOrk
cibaegno, they carried between 80 million and 172 million in cash. money was deposited in swiss account and us and spanish account. but only 15 million dollars was kept by the family.. wait for the book ....prove of cleared checks by over 230 families in the DR...
the money was stolen from them. ladron que le roba a ladron.. tiene 100 agnos de perdon..
Balaguer had something to do with it too.. el zorro.. leal a la familia Trujillo until the end.
From: United States
Sure, Leonel, your the most honest person to talk about corruption !!!!
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Social progress and a better quality of life will end corruption, but at the same time in large part it is precisely corruption which is impeding people to advance on the social ladder towards a better future.
So there is a vicious cycle of poverty and corruption which can only be overcome over time and with a huge effort from all spheres of society. Zero-tolerance for corruption should be the main approach, and that effort should go hand in hand with social security for the poor. Reliable energy supply, good social housing, good infrastructure and good education and health will be the main points to work at next.
Mr. Fernandez is sending mixed signals. Or maybe he's just sending the right signals because his comments can easily be misconstrued to mean that he is willing to accept a certain level of corruption.
I find his choice of words very telling. To say "diminshed" instead of "eliminated", an "unending process" instead of "a transitory state"? The man is no idiot. He knows very well the power that words can convey and he is effectively creating enough wiggle room for himself and others.
But he is a politician. Politicians are not known to talk in absolute terms.
the difference from NYC and the DR is that in NYC they WILL prosecute someone who is guilty and if they know about it. In the DR it is forgiven by the next guy in office. That way they know they WON'T be prosecuted when they leave office. Leonel is just as bad as Hippo and maybe worse but he won't be prosecuted either. Corruption is so accepted in the Dominican Republic it is a way of life. Here the way out of the ghetto is to become a Polititian and not a Baseball or basketball player. HORRIBLE as it may seem it is the way of life here. Discrimination? If you are white you will pay double and if you get into an accident you must pay whether the person that rear ended you has a license or insurance or not.
What a flucked up country we have here and they wonder why people are affraid to invest here?
I was surprised that young students were so aware of the three major problems in this country , corruption, poor education and a disproportionate distribution of wealth in the population and , if the quotes from the President are accurate, then I think they are disappointing.
Is it that poverty causes coruption or is coruption a cause of poverty ?..I tend to favour the latter (eg Zimbabwe).
are the Dominicans so corrupt because they are so pure, or are the so pure because everybody is corrupt ?...something to think about !
0000
Corruption is capitalism or, at least, a form of capitalism, that benefits from breaking the rules of "fair" play or breaking bourgeois laws on "fair" competition chiefly among elements of the capitalist class in pursuit of the complete looting of the state treasury.
In corruption, the capitalist and the cappie want-to-be expose themselves vividly and unmistakably as a thief and as a parasite.
Can these thieves and parasites be eliminated?
Oh yes, of course.
But it will take a while.
The act is stealing the assets of the state.
The feeling is a degree of pleasure, that often rises in intensity to a state of joy, that either precedes or accompanies or follows the act of stealing the assets of the state.
The act is sometimes and by some people viewed as a crime. But the feeling ... better known as a greed for state assets ... is seen only as an immorality, a vice, or, more piously, a sin.
Does the elimination of corruption entail or involve only the act?
Some people who covet improperly the assets of the state do not regularly perform the act of stealing the assets because these people are strong or afraid. From time to time, even these strong or timid people are overcome with an uncontrollable urge to steal the assets of the state and they suffer a momentary criminal and moral failure.
How do we eliminate this almost irresistible feeling that is so closely connected with the act?
0000
As in "You are a corrupt person even though you don't steal."
Final questions to think about corruption at it's greatest level and yet it's the least reported: Fundacion Global. Who owns it, how was it funded and how does it continue to become one of the richest foundations in all of the Dominican Republic without outwardly showing itself to be a foundation of just merit?
How on earth can you say that "Balaguer allowed a more controlled corruption".
Balaguere was the Godfather of corruption. He created a farrago of corruption more turbid than anything Trujillo or his predecessors could have created. Balaguer blessed and encouraged all corruptive practices as long as they did not bear his name. Though he cannot be fully blamed for our current social state, he is responsible for propagating corruption and ignorance, and for depriving The Dominican people of dignity, respect, and success specifically at a time when all the forces and elements were in place to do just the opposite.
Corruption would never end in the DR... it is in our blood now to be corrupt and to invade someone else property and built a house and no pay for the land. Or to use someone else name and sell their property. or to steal electricity by connecting a wire.. or stealing someone cows and just leaving the bones, skin and blood in the farm.. or empty someone else bank account and use that money for your husband business, and when the bank account owner's finds out, shoot them in the chest...
Do you think we still have hope??
I used to believe our country would change one day... but when.. not today or tomorrow.. maybe in another 500 years. I would be dead by then..and resting in Hawaii... ( I could not trust the cementery either.. They are corrupt too..)
Sometimes they will prosecute – Dollars talk and bullshit walks. Anyway corruption and or lobbying are endemic in Washington and NYC. Maybe ½ of 1% percent are caught and than 20% are prosecuted.
Fact: The Brooklyn DAs Office sees more payoff monies flowing through its office than any other branch in NY.
Ohh believe me i know just how deep Balaguer's corruption ran, i'm just saying it was more controlled, just like it was even more controlled under Trujillo. I was just comparing Fernandez to Balaguer not Balaguer to everyone else. If you check the economic levels and compare, you can see that Balaguer controlled more the economy, how did he do this? easy He controlled the poverty levels and kept the vast majority of the poor feeling "satisfied" with their poverty, It was his political genius at using murder, corruption of both church and state for controlling the political and social elites. I'm not in any way saying Balaguer was better morally, but i can assure you things were "safer" under him than they are with Leonel, just look at crime levels.
At the time of his death Trujillo was worth 800, 000, 000 US 1961 Dollars, billions in today's dollars. He sure as hell didn't come into power with all, or even a substantial percanetage, of that money. Corruption wasn't under control under Trujillo. Trujillo WAS corruption personified. Corruption was streamlined under his regime. That's all that could be said on that. As for Balaguer. Let's not even get into all the illicit fortunes that were acquired by Balaguer's coterie. Balaguer's regime was as corrupt as they come. Do not fool yourselves into thinking otherwise.
http://www.chomsky.info/books/washington02.htm
There's a link that discusses Balaguer's initial 12 years (the article was written in 79 and hence a contemporary view of said regime). Get an idea of who this man was and what he represented to our people. His regime was detrimental to say the least.
Balaguer depriving Dominicans of Dignity, Education, Purpose, and Opportunity by blinding their misery with bountiful food and meaningless government jobs.
Or a government equally corrupt that deprives people of food but can provide forward thinking increased social services vision, sustainable growth and a "perception" of equality and social prosperity.
...................Mama Always Said Life Was Like A Box of Chocolate. You Never Know What You're Going To Get!
(Forrest Gump)
"Corruption would never end in the DR... it is in our blood now to be corrupt and to invade someone else property and built a house and no pay for the land. Or to use someone else name and sell their property. or to steal electricity by connecting a wire.. or stealing someone cows and just leaving the bones, skin and blood in the farm.. or empty someone else bank account and use that money for your husband business, and when the bank account owner's finds out, shoot them in the chest... "
000o
In the name of God or the Nazarene, what you write is non-conceptual.
Corruption is not all stealing or stealing without limitations.
Corruption is only stealing the assets of the state. Corruption is political stealing.
You blame corruption unjustly for thefts it had nothing to do with; that is, thefts completely in the private sectors.
How can you do this?
This is neither fair, just, legal nor moral.
You should apologize to corruption for exaggeration.
Balaguer is what i consider the architect of modern Dominican ignorance, again i agree history will not be kind. Just reading "Un Cortesano en la era de Trujillo" gives you a good look at the times and the rise to power. and obviously also Balaguer's famous "blank page".
I had wish, it should have happened much sooner.
You should apologize to corruption for exaggeration.
LMAO...LOL... jejeje...good one..
Somewhere it is written:
"Every-man is conceived in sin, and born unto corruption"
Trujillo had that account of $800 Million Dollars, thats true.. out of that account he paid the national and international debt. He bought Citibank to stablish our Central Bank. at the end he had 800 Million Dollars only $15 million were taken out of the country going to Spain and Miami. The rest of the money was left in the Dominican Republic and a group of politicians and business people took the rest.
Thanks to Balaguer, I was born in the Dominican Republic... beware "la tumba del viejo ciego" is in plan to be moved to a secure place.
a Coronel invaded my property in Samana, built a house and tried to sell the property without
buying the land. Another friend of the family was forced out of his own house to build a school. The property later was sold to a consorcio de invercionista en La Romana...
In the DR corruption is running everywhere.. desde el gobierno hasta el individuo en la calle.
LOL..apo' fue Balague quien te pario entonce'...julio, your breakdown of Trujillo's finances are naive at best..He didn't use HIS money to pay off the national debt, he used state money. That 800, 000, 000 I cited was an estimate on the PERSONAL fortune of Trujillo that was arrived at AFTER Trujillo's death.
"beware "la tumba del viejo ciego" is in plan to be moved to a secure place. "
If that's true then it just lends weight to all I've been saying. Why even bother moving him if he was so great and beloved? Obviously he has a significant number of detractors who know all to well what he was about.
buying the land."
Tu amigo Balaguer y el animal de Trujillo son los culpables de que exista semejante mentalidad en la republica atraves de nuestros oficiales militares. You were a victim of theirs without even realizing it.
Balaguer was not quien me pario.. but he allowed my family to move back to the Dominican Republic.
Now let me ask you this. Why should you require any man's permission to touch the soil you were born on? You yourself are revealing the despotic nature of the Balaguer regime for making such a statement. 15 million doesn't even begin to cover it. Trujillo had huge dollar figures in foreign bank accounts that dwarf that figure you just gave. Look it up.
"Every-man is conceived in sin, and born unto corruption"
0000
This charming tale implies one of three things; either:
(1) Adam wasn't a man, or
(2) Adam wasn't conceived, or
(3) Adam was born unto corruption and sin.
Well, (1), (2), and (3) are, of course, all lies.
As you know, there was nothing sinful and corrupt about Adam's birth which was more immaculate than that of the Nazarene, therefore it's a big lie ... 5000 years old ... that "Every-man is conceived in sin, and born unto corruption"
By the way, if Adam "was conceived in sin, and born unto corruption," then the big boss of the divine beings, a certain God, is sinful and corrupt, because the Zionist book of divine literature says that Adam was created in the image of this highly important divine being.
Fortune-- counted the Sugar Cane companies, the electrical companies the casinos, the cerveceria nacional, la tabacalera... those companies are still in the Dominican Republic. the state had a little over one billion when he was assassinated and the family took $15 millones en Dolares the rest still in the DR taken by families that used to work Trujillo. if the Dictator is dead the people would not be able to know if someone else took the money.. check the checks that cleared after his dead, we still have copies unless misteriosamente se desaparecieron..
you can check the NYT or archives.. you will find the information there..
"Even a few bits and pieces of the billion-dollar Trujillo fortune.."
from a 1964 Time articel,AFTER the goat got his:
"Rhadames and three others of the high-living Trujillo clan suddenly face a court fight over the enormous fortune-estimated at something like $100 million—that they carried out of the Dominican Republic between 1930 and 1961,when the Trujillo reign ended."
No one was fighting over 15 million in 1964.Look at the zeros.Time magazine was just quoted at putting Trujillo's fortune at a billion shortly after his death.No one knew exactly what these people had accumulated but it was something astronomical in its day and there sure as hell wasn't only 15 million when all was said and done.What you're refering to is an EMBARGO voted upon by the OAS against the Dominican nation because of the Betancourt incident,not unlike the type of embargo cuba has been undergoing for some time. You're confusing two different issues.
the money was stolen from them. ladron que le roba a ladron.. tiene 100 agnos de perdon..
Balaguer had something to do with it too.. el zorro.. leal a la familia Trujillo until the end.