From: United States, Richmond, Texas
Mugabe for President of DR. There is a guy who knows how to run a country.
Written by: Lautaro, 13 Aug 2008 10:37 AM
From: Brazil, near Copacabana
You're joking, right??
From: United States, Spring Valley, NY
I can't help but notice that painting of Duarte looking at both Preval and Fernandez.
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
Well at the rate Lionel, chavez, evo and ortega and correa are going it almost could not be worse
From: United States
Mugabe of Zimbabwe .. his country has a 2700% rate of inflation .. he has encouraged and legislated for the mass seizure and redistribution of land .. which has led to mass starvation in a country that was once the "breadbasket" of Africa .. routinely beats and kills his rivals .. will never leave his job as President for Life .. but other than that .. Robert Mugabe is a GREAT LEADER.
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
Well all heads of state have a few small faults, you don't have to point out every one Ghoul. Besides the killing fields, mas re-education, planned asasinations and other trivial things Pol Pot was pretty cool too!!!!!!
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
Ghoul,
YES, You know I believe that I am coming around to the way Belial and Scandi think. Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Lennin, Stalin, Chavez, Fidel, Noriega, Baby Doc, Mugabe, Evo, Ortega, Correa-----They are obvisouly ahead of their time, there just misunderstood, the system must work, tax everyone into poverty, redistribute the wealth, property, build usless infrastructures, (metro in DR, Light rail in Houston) think like me or else, yeah thats the ticket. OOpsss I forgot in the US we call them Liberals or Democrats, wheww glad I remembered to take my medicne.
Written by: Belial, 13 Aug 2008 12:30 PM
From: United States, Texas
With LF [Leonel Fernandez] in Santo Domingo getting August 16 some 13 heads of state and FL [Fernando Lugo] in Asuncion getting August 15 only 11 heads of state, LF will get more head this weekend than FL.
Among others, FL [Lugo] will get Ortega of Nicaragua, Chavez of Venezuela, Correa of Ecuador, Evo of Bolivia, and Lula of Brazil.
Also confirmed for Lugo are the heads of Chile, Uruguay, Honduras, [Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner of] Argentina and Equatorial Guinea.
So, Lugo will get a mostly South American crowd, with Ortega and Zelaya sticking out as Central American exceptions.
Among others LF, [Leonel Fernandez] will get a mostly Central American and Caribbean crowd.
Confirmed for LF are the heads of Costa Rica; Guatemala, El Salvador, Panama, Haiti and Belize; plus, Venezuela, Taiwan, and Colombia.
Mexico ... once contender or pretender for regional leader ... may stay home.
Both the DR and Paraguay will get the same worn-out prince.
Written by: Belial, 13 Aug 2008 12:36 PM
From: United States, Texas
"YES, You know I believe that I am coming around to the way Belial and Scandi think. Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Lennin, Stalin, Chavez, Fidel, Noriega, Baby Doc, Mugabe, Evo, Ortega, Correa-----"
oooo
Tex, do you have a reason for overlooking the 2,000,000 people who have perished in Iraq since March 2003 as a result of George W. Bush lies, aggession and occupation.
None of the individuals you named above were as murderous as Bush.
From: United States
Marx squatted .. let out a little grunt .. and out popped Lenin .. Stalin .. Mao .. Ho Chi Minh .. Castro and his brother Raul .. Che Guevara .. Hugo Chavez .. Ortega .. Mugabe and YOU of course.
From: United States
Your numbers on Iraqi casualties are way off .. statistics don't lie .. but PEOPLE DO.
From: United States
If you are going to attack George Bush .. my UNLEARNED FRIEND .. at least try to get your numbers right .. 86,609–94,490 Iraqi civilians are REPORTED to have died since the INVASION and OCCUPATION of Iraq.
http://www.iraqbodycount.orgEstimates run into the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS but 2,000,000 is FAR FETCHED. We sent you to school .. taught you to read .. taught you to write .. and what did you do? .. YOU ATE THE TEACHER!!
Written by: Belial, 13 Aug 2008 1:27 PM
From: United States, Texas
BODY COUNT
p. 1
If you are going to attack George Bush .. my UNLEARNED FRIEND .. at least try to get your numbers right .. 86,609–94,490 Iraqi civilians are REPORTED to have died since the INVASION and OCCUPATION of Iraq.
http://www.iraqbodycount.orgEstimates run into the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS but 2,000,000 is FAR FETCHED. We sent you to school .. taught you to read .. taught you to write .. and what did you do? .. YOU ATE THE TEACHER!!
oooo
Iraqi Body Count (IBC) doesn't identify its staff or state their qualifications.
IBC is not a peer review group like John Hopkins University.
Nor is IBC, a reputable research frim like ORB in the UK which has done research for thousands of non-military and non-spy agency clients all over the world for many years.
IBC is a propaganda outfit set up by the Pentagon savages to tell lies, cover up, or minimize the massive US-perpetrated genocide against Iraqi people that has taken almost 2,000,000 lives in only 5 years.
From: United States
So where are YOUR numbers coming from? The Pol Pot School of Lying with Numbers? Why don't you quote your sources so they can be verified and questioned?
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
Belial,
A war is quite different than purging your own population for a difference of opinion. The gulags of Russia is where they sent Russian people to be worked to death because the disagreed with the system under which they were living. Saddam and his sons killed olympic participants because the did not bring home gold medals. Chavez has denied over 200 individuals for running for office this November because of SUSPICION of irregularaties, not confirmed or confirmable. Fidel and Raul routinely lock up their own population because the disagree with the ideas of communisim. Mugabe has killed his OWN people to maintain the status of "President for Life". When I worked in Haiti some of my local employees told me that Baby Doc would ride around in the back of an army truck and randomly shoot poeple on the street. You know why in Democratic countries the Communist party never wins. Because they are a bunch of sniveling little twits who cry when they don't get their way
Written by: Jander, 13 Aug 2008 1:38 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Mr. Hussein's has been a tale of terror that scholars have compared to that of Stalin, whom the Iraqi leader is said to revere, even if his own brutalities have played out on a small scale. Stalin killed 20 million of his own people, historians have concluded. Even on a proportional basis, his crimes far surpass Mr. Hussein's, but figures of a million dead Iraqis, in war and through terror, may not be far from the mark, in a country of 22 million people
.
Written by: Jander, 13 Aug 2008 1:38 PM
From: Dominican Republic
86,609–94,490 you mean we haven't hit our goal of 100k yet. Well a couple of bunker blasters and we should hit our quota..
Remember Sadamm had killed how many/
Oh Yeah what about Stalin Bush is amateur compared to your hereos'
Like other dictators who wrote bloody chapters in 20th-century history, Mr. Hussein was primed for violence by early childhood. Born into the murderous clan culture of a village that lived off piracy on the Tigris River, he was harshly beaten by a brutal stepfather. In 1959, at age 22, he made his start in politics as one of the gunmen who botched an attempt to assassinate Iraq's first military ruler, Abdel Karim Kassem.Since then,
Continued
From: United States
This guy is barely a "Communist" .. he does not understand even the bare essentials of Marxian Dialectical Materialism .. he may have overheard a DRUNKEN bar room chat somewhere about Marxism and Communism .. but that's about it .. his writings here are nothing more than PURE MUDDLED GIBBERISH. An ANACHRONISTIC relic from the COLD WAR ERA. Marxian thinking has undergone many changes in response to the dynamics observable in MODERN CAPITALIST MODES OF PRODUCTION. But this character still keeps MUMBLING the SAME OLD JUNK straight out of Friedrich Engels' translations of DAS KAPITAL. He's like a CAPITALIST who does not understand the meaning of PROFIT.
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
Belial whined and said: "Iraqi Body Count (IBC) doesn't identify its staff or state their qualifications"
When you constantly quote your stats on Cuba, Venezuela and on and on from where do you get you information. I have said before, I know Cubans who are here in Houston where we both live who would be glad to inform you what the Real Cuba is like. I have invited you to go to Venezuela to see the programs set up by Chavez in Non-functioning mode and whenever this is asked of you by myself or of others you never respond just go to another story and post the same garbage. HHUUUUUMMMMMMMMMMMMM Makes me think that you have no leg to stand on, no sources to quote, no backup for your allegations, nothing but pure manifesto crap. If you are so sour on life here in the US I am sure there are some great government run medical facilities that will take you in and take care of you for the rest of your life instead of you having to earn your keep.
Written by: Jander, 13 Aug 2008 1:43 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Belial , I suppose you support Russia beating up on Georgia as well. Well Bush may be an idiot but he ain't afraid to kick ass and take names.
Written by: Belial, 13 Aug 2008 1:48 PM
From: United States, Texas
BODY COUNT
p. 2
IBC admits its count distorts the reality of war-mortality in Iraq.
IBS says itself:
"IBC’s documentary evidence is drawn from crosschecked media reports of violent events leading to the death of civilians, or of bodies being found, and is supplemented by the careful review and integration of hospital, morgue, NGO and official figures. "
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/about/IBC uses"media reports." In other words, "Since I didn't read about his death in the paper, he must be alive."
IBC only counts "death of civilians." He's not a "civilian." He an "enemy combatant," therefore we can't count him as dead although the USA shoots "combatants" and "civilians."
IBC counts "bodies ... found." US imperialists throw bodies into garbage trucks or on flatbeds and bury them in mass graves dug by bulldozers. "Oh dear, we count count bodies not found."
IBC uses "hospital, morgue ... official figures" officially under the control of savage US mass murderers.
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
Belial,
The diffeerence between a far left idoit, communist, facsist, democrat and a sensible person is that I for one will also condem Bush, Brown, Fox, whomever if they do something I think is boneheaded. But you guys would back up jack the ripper, lizzy borden, ted Bundy or who ever if it meant embarrasing someone who was middle of the road or to the right.. So Sad Belial you know what they say,
You can cure ignorance but stupidness lasts a lifetime.
Written by: Jander, 13 Aug 2008 1:53 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Everyone can critisize George Bush and I will be the first in line , but he isn't afraid to look a man in the eye and tell him he doesn't like what he is doing. He isn't hiding somewhere afraid he will be shot, he is walking around China just days after he told them to start treating your people better.
Thats what 'True Americans" are all about.
Written by: Belial, 13 Aug 2008 1:56 PM
From: United States, Texas
BODY COUNT
P.3
IBC is a liar and it surprisingly admits it.
If somebody is too stupid to understand IBC's public admission of mendacity, then that's not IBC's problem.
IBC told its lie about war-related deaths in Iraq to get its juicy fee from the US Department of Defense, the HQ of world genocide, and IBC also exposed to its readers that its research methods are worthless and therefore its findings about the body count in Iraq are worthless.
Written by: Jander, 13 Aug 2008 1:56 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Belial we will bury anyone who threatens our freedom or our allies, either you are with us or against us no in between you Commie Coward!
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
Jander,
Well said well stated-- The difference is we BELIEVE is ourselves he believes in some old broken down idea that has never worked, and to make it work you have to kill your own citizens, strike fear into the masses to make it work, that is why like in CUba people would rather risk their life getting away than stay and be miserable.
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
Belial the idiot says;
"IBC is a liar and it surprisingly admits it."
How can they be lying if the demonstrate how they compile their information. Seems to me that as transparent as it gets.
Written by: Jander, 13 Aug 2008 2:27 PM
From: Dominican Republic
You like to use body counts as your defense well it has an effect because we do not puposely target civilians in war. However we do not use civilians as human sheilds either so to refresh your memory that this war wasn't just about WMD's or Bush's revenge read this and refresh your memory. In fact we gave Sadam 24 hours to get out of the country and take his sons with him he obvioulsy made the wrong decision.
http://www.iraqfoundation.org/news/2003/ajan/27_saddam.htmlFrom: United States, Richmond, Texas
Jander,
Remember that he also had a PRISON FOR CHILDREN.
Written by: Belial, 13 Aug 2008 2:30 PM
From: United States, Texas
BODY COUNT
P. 4
FIRST GENOCIDE STUDY -- IN 2004, JOHN HOPKINS UNIVERSITY I
http://iraqmortality.org/studies/lancetNow, I shall show about 2,000,000 war-related deaths in 5 years accurately describes the magnitude of the evil that the US imperialists are committing in Iraq.
The first major peer review study of Iraq's war-related mortality was conducted by John Hopkins University, a US school of great internationa prestige, and study was published in the UK medical journal "Lancet" in October 2004.
This study, known as JH I (or John Hopkins I), found, as of Oct. 2004, over 100,000 people had perished from war-related causes after March 2003. JH I was interrupted before completion by escalation in hostilities in Iraq in the summer of 2004. So, the interruption hinted that the body count was really above 100,000 fatal casualties.
We still use 100,000 because it's the best number we have as of Oct. 2004.
Written by: anthonyC, 13 Aug 2008 2:38 PM
From: United States
"This study, known as JH I (or John Hopkins I), found, as of Oct. 2004, over 100,000 people had perished from war-related causes after March 2003."
Ok and how amny of them were killed by other Iraqis? How many were killed for muslim terrorists form other countries?
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
Ok, Even with new math I dont get that
" JH I was interrupted before completion by escalation in hostilities in Iraq in the summer of 2004. So, the interruption hinted that the body count was really above 100,000 fatal casualties."
So since 2004 there has been a surge and a dramatic decrease in IED'S, the radical cleric called of his dogs and things have been pretty much static since. So even if you say the number is 100,000 how do yo arrive at 2,000,000
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
Ok,
FIRST GENOCIDE STUDY -- IN 2004, JOHN HOPKINS UNIVERSITY I
http://iraqmortality.org/studies/lancetSo if the IBC is lying than so must JHI, They both state how they gather their information and how they apply it to arrive at the results. Like I have said before you can not have it both ways. Or as we say here in Texas "it is what it is" they both report using methods that are different yet similar and they both have arrived at around 100,000 + /- so I ask once again how do you get to 2 million?????
From: United States
Seems like "Son of Karl" is getting a nice little bashing about the head today .. that should help give him a little "attitude adjustment" ..
Written by: Belial, 13 Aug 2008 3:03 PM
From: United States, Texas
BODY COUNT
P. 5
Having an estimated body count up to Oct 2004 -- that is, 100,0000 war related deaths and the number of months between March 2003 and October 2004 -- that is, 19, we can figure the monthly rate of genocide that the US imperialist committed against the Iraqi people"
100,000 war-related deaths / 19 months = 5,263 as the monthly genocide rate
So, the monthly rate of genocide committed by the US imperialists against the Iraqi people between Mar. 2003 and Oct. 2004 was something like 5200 kills a month.
SECOND GENOCIDE STUDY -- IN 2006, JOHN HOPKINS UNIVERSITY II
http://www.thelancet.com/webfiles....nals/lancet/s0140673606694919.pdfThis study, known as JH II (or John Hopkins II), found, as of Oct. 2006, over 650,000 people had perished from war-related causes after March 2003. JH II was also first published by the UK medical journal Lancet. Both JH studies used house-to-house interviews and asked for death certificates.
Written by: Jander, 13 Aug 2008 3:14 PM
From: Dominican Republic
The ones who died in the struggle for freedom did not die in vain. May God and or Allah Bless their souls.
Iraq will enjoy the same wealth and freedom that their neigbors have and that is only possible through Democracy. Get used to it, it is here to stay.
Written by: Belial, 13 Aug 2008 3:18 PM
From: United States, Texas
BODY COUNT
P. 5
To get the body count for the 24-month period between Oct. 2004 JH I and the Oct. 2006 JH II , all we have to do is subtract 100,000 deaths from 650,000 deaths for the number 550,000.
And to get the monthly genocide rate inflicted by US murderers for the same 24-month period between Oct. 2004 and Oct. 2006, all we have to do is to divide the 550,000 deaths by 24 months to get 22, 916 as the average number people killed per month.
So, the monthly rate of genocide committed or precipitated by the US imperialists against the Iraqi people between Oct. 2004 and Oct. 2006 was something like 23,000 kills per month.
A month after JH II, the US people on Nov. 6, 2006, voted in legislative elections against the US genocide, US aggression, US oil theft, and US lies pertaining to Iraqi possession of WMDs and Iraqi complicity in 9/11 which started the terrible holocaust.
Then came the surge, not in US troop numbers but in the genocide rate.
Written by: Jander, 13 Aug 2008 3:43 PM
From: Dominican Republic
The ones who died in the struggle for freedom did not die in vain. May God and or Allah Bless their souls.
Iraq will enjoy the same wealth and freedom that their neigbors have and that is only possible through Democracy. Get used to it, it is here to stay.
Written by: Belial, 13 Aug 2008 3:51 PM
From: United States, Texas
BODY COUNT
P. 5
THIRD GENOCIDE STUDY -- IN 2007, OPINION RESEARCH BUSINESS
http://www.opinion.co.uk/Newsroom_details.aspx?NewsId=78This ORB study found, as of September 2007 over over 1.200,0000 people had perished from war-related causes after March 2003.
Let's find the number of deaths between the Oct. 2006 JH II which found over 650,000 and Sept. 2007 ORB study which found over 1.2 million dead.
So, the number of the people who died during the first 10 months of the surge (Dec. 2007 to Sept 2007) was about 550,000 [or 1.200,000 -- 650,000].
To get the monthly gencide rate. all we have to do is to divide 550, 000 casualties between Dec. 2006 and Sept. 2007 by 10 months that the period contains.
The genocide rate during the surge leaped from 23,000 to about 55,000 Iraqis deaths per month.
By September 2007 when the ORB study was released, US military commanders in Iraq were testifying happily before Congress about a US victory in Iraq.
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
I wish I knew where you got the stuff that your smoking, it must be good $hit. So you take an average of death/ divided by months of death multiplied by before and after dates of death studies of death that were not completed due to interumptions by higher death rates then the death rate declined (because you can only die once) and you have extrapolated +/- 100,000 dead by varoius means and causes of death and in a 5 year period the result is 2,000,000 dead. Did you work at NASA in a prior job, that pie in the sky type of assumptions is why the commie / liberal crap never works. I bet you are your own grandpa. Can your sister outrun you??? Are you from West Virginia originally. Just goes to show you that you can work statistics anyway you want. At least the IBC for whatever you fault it for is current and up to date and not just conjecture and rhetoric.
Written by: Belial, 13 Aug 2008 3:57 PM
From: United States, Texas
BODY COUNT
P. 6
To get the almost 2,000,000 death figure, all we have to do is to pick a reasonable monthly genocide rate and multiply the number of months between Sept 2007 and August 2008 by the genocide rate.
Then add the number you get to 1.2 million ORB found as of Sept 2007.
But even this simple arithmetic task is to hard for an pro-imperialist idiot or scumbag.
THE END ... OF THE BODY COUNT SERIES
From: United States
I guess "Son of Karl" now knows what Custer felt like at the Little Big Horn .. a few more of these powdering sessions and this ENDANGERED COMMUNIST could finally be declared an EXTINCT COMMUNIST. Buried along with his embalmed heroes Stalin, Lenin and Mao. Resting In Purgatory.
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
Well I am glad your common denominator is a "resonable monthly death rate" Did you assume that all months were equal as in 30.4 days each or did you use the Mayan Calender.
"9 JANUARY 2008 | GENEVA/BAGHDAD -- A large national household survey conducted by the Iraqi government and WHO estimates that 151 000 Iraqis died from violence between March 2003 and June 2006." States the World Health Organization a division of the United nations.
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2008/pr02/en/index.htmlUsing your own method of calculating, 151,000 divided by 39 months is 3871 per month and assuming that on a go forward basis it stayed the same from june 2006 to june 2008 that is 3871 times 24 or an additional 92,922 deaths plus 151,000 for a grand total of 243,922 deaths. I dont know but that is still about 1.6 million shy of the target you came up with. I hope you not an accountant. Did you work for Enron????
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
By the way, the WHO study was done in the same random sampling method used by IBC and both JHI studies. So are the all three incorrect.?? Since you used both JHI studies as your basis, your individual calculations must be incorrect.
As you pointed out I have read the report as quoted by you and the OMB it clearly is a poll and not scientific and included in your numbers is a 20% of all deaths reported were by car bombs or IED planted by the same Iraqi people so how can you blame that on the US
Written by: anthonyC, 13 Aug 2008 4:29 PM
From: United States
Belail,
I find it amusing that you ignored my question.
How many of these Iragi Victims were killed by other Iraqis?
How many were killed by other Muslim Terrorists?
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
Here is also an excerpt from the OMB report a quoted by Belial;
"Calculating the affect from the margin of error we believe that the range is a minimum of 733,158 to a maximum of 1,446,063"
I ask how can all the other reports come to around + / -100,000 and this one is seven times that number at the low end................. Because it is from a left wing British polling group that disagreed with Blair.
Written by: Belial, 13 Aug 2008 5:15 PM
From: United States, Texas
WHO?
p. 1 of 2
What about the WHO study? ... Tex mentions.
WHO found about 150,000 Iraqi fatal casualties between March 2003 and June 2006.
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2008/pr02/en/index.htmlThe "WHO study" wasn't done entirely or mostly by WHO, rather it was done pro-US quisling regime in Baghdad allegedly some assistance from WHO. Since the pro-US quisling regime in Baghdad in a belligerent in the war, there is at least an "appearance" of a conflict of interest that not even WHO could have missed.
WHO says the "large national household survey [was] conducted by the Iraqi government and WHO" and a WHO statistician provided technical assistance for the survey.
This providing of technical assistance which can be accepted or rejected says that WHO was not in charge of the conduct of the study. WHO lends its name to, defends, and legitimizes a pack of lies made up by pro-US quisling regime in Baghdad.
Written by: Belial, 13 Aug 2008 5:30 PM
From: United States, Texas
WHO?
p. 2 of 2
Not only does the pro-US quisling regime in Baghdad lacks the credibility to conduct a study for public dissemination on the casualties of the war it's currently fighting, but also WHO and the administrative staff of the UN are more of allies of US imperialism than impartial outsiders.
By May 2003, only two months after the foul and inhuman US aggression in March, there were 300 U.N. staff members in Baghdad and 646 throughout the Iraq, helping to defeat the international effort to deny diplomatic recognition to pro-US quisling regime in Baghdad.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/08/19/sprj.irq.main/On August 20, 2003, somebody blew up 17 UN staff people in their HQin Baghdad, including among the dead were representatives of WHO? They died and became part of the body count.
The WHO were vicious toward the Iraqi people before Augsut 20 bombing, but after the bombing, WHO became and remained an animal.
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
WHAT, the hell are you talking about!!!!
Written by: Belial, 13 Aug 2008 5:49 PM
From: United States, Texas
"I find it amusing that you ignored my question."
"How many of these Iragi Victims were killed by other Iraqis?"
0000
I ignored it because it's irrelevant in the determination of legal and moral responsibility or culpability for the victims' deaths.
If someone initiates a process knowing that a likely result are many deaths, then it's hard to escape legal and moral responsibility for those deaths.
Say, you shout "fire" in a crowded theater and people are stomped to death.
You can't escape legal or moral responsibility by saying that the guy who shouted "fire" didn't actually stomp anybody.
Say, you start a war by telling lies about WMDs and 9/11, you can escape responsibility for this great evil by saying I didn't shoot anybody.
Most GOPs and reactionary rats disagree with this view, but this is because they are rotten to the core.
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
Having worked in conjunction with two UN Missions in my lifetime, Haiti and the other in the Balkins, I can tell you they are anything but run by theUS..I can also tell you they are a FUBAR of an organization, they could not organize a drunk inside of a brewery, but the names as quoted out of the report do not look gringo to me.
Naeema Al Gasseer, the WHO Representative to Iraq.
Some homes could not be visited because of high levels of insecurity and more people move residence in times of conflict. These factors were taken into account in the analysis as they may affect the accuracy of the survey work," said Salih Mahdi Motlab Al-Hasanawi, Minister of Health of Iraq
Fadela Chaib
WHO Department of Communications
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
Ok, Belial,
Say you are being sought for delivery of a package and your neighbor has set a bomb to kill her ex-husband as the fedex guy hands you your package her bomb goes off and get you and the fedex guy, by your way of thinking it is the fedex guys fault???
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
From the same WHO report;
Besides deaths, the Iraq Family Health Survey tracked health indictors such as pregnancy history, mental health status, chronic illnesses, smoking habits, sexually transmitted infections, domestic violence and heath-care spending patterns.
Written by: Belial, 13 Aug 2008 6:06 PM
From: United States, Texas
Here is also an excerpt from the OMB report a quoted by Belial;
"Calculating the affect from the margin of error we believe that the range is a minimum of 733,158 to a maximum of 1,446,063"
I ask how can all the other reports come to around + / -100,000 and this one is seven times that number at the low end................. Because it is from a left wing British polling group that disagreed with Blair.
ooooo
Even the lower end of the margin at about 733,000 blows pro-imperialist lies about an Iraqi body count of only 100,000 to 150,000 out of the water.
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
We were not debating 700,000 you are the one who proposed 2 million not me or any other one here. And it says the margin of error could be 700,000 at the low and as much as 1.4 million. Pretty much bring it back in the 100,000 + / - range
Written by: Belial, 13 Aug 2008 8:39 PM
From: United States, Texas
p. 1 of 2
Johnny Heald, ORB Managing Director,
There is a dispute in a newspaper forum of Dominican Today
http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/....can-Presidents-inaugural#commentsthat deals with a piece of the work product of ORB.
I would very much like to have your response.
Belial
oooo
In the report on Iraqi casualties, ORB said:
"The standard margin of error on the sample who answered (1,499) is +2.5%"
"Given that from the 2005 census there are a total of 4,050,597 households this data suggests a total of 1,220,580 deaths since the invasion in 2003. Calculating the affect from the margin of error we believe that the range is a minimum of 733,158 to a maximum of 1,446,063"
A poster, who calls himself "Tex" in a Dominican Today forum makes these comments:
Written by: Belial, 13 Aug 2008 8:41 PM
From: United States, Texas
p. 2 of 2
A poster, who calls himself "Tex" in a Dominican Today forum makes these comments:
"Calculating the affect from the margin of error we believe that the range is a minimum of 733,158 to a maximum of 1,446,063" Tex cites your statement.
"I ask how can all the other reports come to around + / -100,000 and this one is seven times that number at the low end................. Because it is from a left wing British polling group that disagreed with Blair," Tex asks and answers.
"It says the margin of error could be 700,000 at the low and as much as 1.4 million. Pretty much bring it back in the 100,000 + / - range," Tex figures.
oooo
I pretty sure this is just gibberish from Tex, but can you make any sense of what he's saying or trying to say.
I believe that ORB study will become prominent is the US presidential campaign.
Thank you very much
Belial
From: United States
2,000,000 huh?
From: United States
It's been a long day for you "Son of Karl" .. almost 9 hours of trying to prove the death of 2,000,000 Iraqi civilians .. man were they out to get you this time. But tomorrow is another day .. as Scarlett O'Hara would have said as she gazed out over the smouldering ruins of her beloved Tara .. so be up nice and early tomorrow and get ready for some more pounding.
Written by: Belial, 13 Aug 2008 10:07 PM
From: United States, Texas
"It's been a long day for you "Son of Karl" .. almost 9 hours of trying to prove the death of 2,000,000 Iraqi civilians .. man were they out to get you this time. But tomorrow is another day .. as Scarlett O'Hara would have said as she gazed out over the smouldering ruins of her beloved Tara .. so be up nice and early tomorrow and get ready for some more pounding."
oooo
Yes, GC II, it's been a long day.
They never understood the arithmetic, so they talked gibberish.
Scarlett O'Hara was a bourgeois tramp. I'm glad she's gone.
The philistines took the pounding from me. I'm eager to resume pounding them, but they need to rest.
What they can't understand is how I got from 1.2 million to almost 2 million.
Written by: anthonyC, 13 Aug 2008 10:11 PM
From: United States
While there is no way to truly know how many innocents were killed by the US Military the numbers is probably in the 600 to 700 range.
I can tell you exactly how many innocents were targeted by the US Military...........ZERO!!!!
From: United States
I doubt whether our soldiers deliberately target civilians .. but it is hard to avoid hitting innocent people when the fighting is smack in the middle of densely populated urban areas .. ordinary civilians often carry guns to protect themselves from gangs of thugs roaming the streets of Baghdad .. so it is not easy telling the "good guys" from the "bad guys" .. there are snipers shooting from roof tops .. if they are lucky a Marine sniper aims and takes out the nest .. if not a TOW missile is sent out and the entire house is reduced to a pile of rubble .. killing all the people inside .. Marine snipers often have a problem differentiating between civilians and fighters .. all it takes is a wrong move by one of the many gun toting Iraqi civilians .. a 50-caliber Barrett sniper rifle .. even at 500 yards .. is not a particularly forgiving weapon.
From: United States
Hey guys why do you pay mind to Belial he is just anHaitian -African monkey like all of them with too much time in their hand Because they don t work , why do you think that he have time to answer every post? if he had a job. he will post , when he is not working.
From: Denmark
aC Dizzy and likes
I dont see the point in whether its 100,000 or 2,000,000 iraqui when even 1 should be classified as murder by the US government since they have invaded a sovereign country without any international law to back them up. They even forced a lot of other countries to join this attack because they were too spineless to do it by their own. Then u had the Abu Graib. Us dont have any obligation to apply to international laws if it doent suit them. But hell if other countries do teh same then the "american interest" kick in. They do not approve the ICC because americans are superior to everybody else in this world and hence can commit atrocities
without beeing procecuted by the ICC. Perhaps Guantanamo.
The alibi now is that at least they managed to get rid of Saddam for the Iraqui people. So why arent the Iraquis applauding the Yanks. Beacuse they know the main reason was to rob the oil resources and nothing else.
Written by: anthonyC, 14 Aug 2008 10:29 AM
From: United States
"without any international law to back "
International law.....you funny.
Written by: antonioj, 14 Aug 2008 11:09 AM
From: Canada, Oakville on terra firma
"
carbelk99, 13 Aug 2008 11:06 PM
From: United States
Hey guys why do you pay mind to Belial he is just anHaitian -African monkey like all of them with too much time in their hand Because they don t work , why do you think that he have time to answer every post? if he had a job. he will post , when he is not working.
"
lol... I am hook on phonics... keep posting they are entertaining...
Written by: Belial, 14 Aug 2008 11:10 AM
From: United States, Texas
"Hey guys why do you pay mind to Belial he is just anHaitian -African monkey like all of them with too much time in their hand Because they don t work , why do you think that he have time to answer every post? if he had a job. he will post , when he is not working," carbelk99, who comes from a line of mules, says about gentleman Belial.
oooo
Carbelk99, you are reactionary rat which reproduces with any other animal that will to lie down, resulting in an infestation of reactionary rats, which destroy crops, start plagues, and excite disgust in humans. The world catches members of your foul family in rat traps and perhaps the day will come will we will hear you, carbelk99, squeal and scream in agony as you wiggle in the trap that awaits you.
Written by: antonioj, 14 Aug 2008 11:11 AM
From: Canada, Oakville on terra firma
carbelk99 aka joker
The Joker is a master criminal whose characterization has varied from a violent and murderous sociopath, causing chaos and committing crimes for his own amusement, to a GOOFY and virtually harmless trickster-thief. The Joker's real identity is unknown, He has been portrayed as lying so often about his former life that he himself is confused as to what actually happened. As he says in The Killing Joke: "Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another... if I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice.
Written by: Belial, 14 Aug 2008 11:30 AM
From: United States, Texas
"I dont see the point in whether its 100,000 or 2,000,000 iraqui when even 1 should be classified as murder by the US government since they have invaded a sovereign country without any international law to back them up."
ScandiViking, thank for again posing the question. But I believe you should see the difference.
Do you see the difference between combat fatalities and murder by an evil force?
When combat between the US imperialist forces and Iraqi patriotic resistance was at its peak at about 100 clashes at day throughout Iraq, with the forces of Iraqi patriotic resistance fighting in small units of less than 20 combabtants, it's mathematically impossible to get 1,000,000 or 2,000,000 kills of Iraqis out of that situation in five years , even if the US imperialist forces wipe the whole 20-person patriotic resistance unit in every clash.
The only way to get a million kills is to round of people like Nazis and murder them wholesale.
This is what US did and does.
Written by: antonioj, 14 Aug 2008 11:54 AM
From: Canada, Oakville on terra firma
Hey Belial
Do you see any major differences between US invasion of Iraq and Russians invasion of Georgia ? I think the us invasion can be seen in a more negative light, in term of the new world order.
Written by: Belial, 14 Aug 2008 12:20 PM
From: United States, Texas
In 2008 ... not 2007 or 2006 ... the quisling regime in Baghdad and UN's World Health Organization (WHO) released a survey finding , according to US captialist press that about 150,000 Iraqis died in Iraq from violence after 2003.
That's the way it was reported by the US capitalist press and instantly spread around the world.
Here's what the quisling-WHO survey said itself:
"9 JANUARY 2008 | GENEVA/BAGHDAD -- A large national household survey conducted by the Iraqi government and WHO estimates that 151 000 Iraqis died from violence between March 2003 and June 2006."
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2008/pr02/en/index.htmlSo, the quisling/WHO study only purports to count Iraqi bodies up to 2006, not 2007 or 2008.
But in 2008, the 150,000 number from quisling/WHO (often reduced to only 100,000) was thrown around as a 2008 body count number.
This has happened in the DT forum.
Written by: Belial, 14 Aug 2008 12:41 PM
From: United States, Texas
Written by: Belial, 14 Aug 2008 12:50 PM
From: United States, Texas
So, applying the 92% from the JH II sample of 1,800 households to the 650,000 value for Iraqi fatalities as of 2006, we get about 598,000 Iraqi war-related fatalities, as of 2006, documented by death certificates issued by the quislling regime with which WHO collaborates to deceive the world about the bestiality and inhumanity of the US occupation of Iraq.
Written by: anthonyC, 14 Aug 2008 12:54 PM
From: United States
Belail,
Onless you have an actual Body Count with the actual cause of death and by whom they may i suggest that all you are doing is spewing crap-science.
Surveys are good for tracking opnions. What they are not good for is counting based soley on annecdotal evidence.
From: United States
I see the "Son of Karl" is still battling it out in the trenches .. it's like the Siege of Leningrad .. the Battle of the Little Big Horn.
Written by: Belial, 14 Aug 2008 1:23 PM
From: United States, Texas
The mass of the US people ... currently a mix of liberals and independents ... look at the US aggression/occupation against the Iraqi people from a number of angles.
Is this war against the Iraqi people good or evil?
Is this war profitable or costly financially?
Is the US regime winning or losing?
I argue that this war is evil because it began with a bunch of US imperial lies about WMDs and about Iraqi complicity in 9/11 and, worse, the US regime has prosecuted war by unprecedented genocide.
So, the aggressive and evil US regime should withdraw all of its troops from Iraq unconditionally.
Outside of the mass of the US people are the foul and bestial US reactionaries, mostly GOPs [but not entirely GOPs] who love and support this war against the Iraqis because it is evil.
Written by: Belial, 14 Aug 2008 1:30 PM
From: United States, Texas
"I see the "Son of Karl" is still battling it out in the trenches .. it's like the Siege of Leningrad .. the Battle of the Little Big Horn, " GC II observes.
0000
Do you believe I'm under siege or behind the siege of these clowns?
I destroyed their WHO survey which was the only thing they had to fight with.
Now they want to run and talk about Georgia or something because their evil in Iraq has been exposed.
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
You destroyed nothing, the facts spoke for themselves. As always when presented with an auguement that you can not defend you resort to name calling.
TonyC, I think you are right and wrong about Belial, he is not a non-working Haitian, he is a non-working displaced person from New Orleans who is angry at society because he can no longer milk the system that he is accustomed to. The same system that has supported him his entire life in his mind has now abandonded him in his hour of need. The problem is it is always HIS hour and never anybody elses. Just like the same communist idols he worships, it was always about them and screw the other few million they control. I really feel sadness for your lack of compassion of your fellow man and understanding that there are greater forces at work in this world besides Karl Marx and Lenin. The black helicopters are coming for you Belial, beware always look over your shoulder. Have a great day and God bless you
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
The question still stands from yesterday; Where are the 2 million dead? And I quote using an excerpt from the same survey Belial uses to defend his numbers.
"Key points of the study include:
• Estimated 654,965 additional deaths in Iraq between March 2003 and July 2006 "
even if you add the 150,000 that was being thrown around yesterday it is still less than one million, which still today put your number as presented by using your same source about 1 million shy of the 2 million mark that you cried about yesterday.
You are going to have to try harder my friend, but that is probably why you do not because it is work.
Written by: Belial, 14 Aug 2008 3:43 PM
From: United States, Texas
"So if the IBC is lying than so must JHI, They both state how they gather their information and how they apply it to arrive at the results. Like I have said before you can not have it both ways. Or as we say here in Texas "it is what it is" they both report using methods that are different yet similar and they both have arrived at around 100,000 + /- so I ask once again how do you get to 2,000,000. million?????"
oo
Sorry, I missed this.
They didn't get to 2,000,000 and nobody ever said they did.
JH I got 100,000 in 2004 and JH II got 650,000 in 2006.
Neither said anything about 2,000,000.
I calculated as I explained in detailed with the numbers in my posts here the monthly rate of genocide using the data and findings of JH I and JH II.
By adding the results from the genocide rate for months after the completion of JH I and JH II and ORB, you get a number that is close to 2,000,000.
Please, drop your act about the 2,000,000 coming out of JH I, JH II, and ORB.
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
And Belial wrote;
BODY COUNT
P. 6
To get the almost 2,000,000 death figure, all we have to do is to pick a reasonable monthly genocide rate and multiply the number of months between Sept 2007 and August 2008 by the genocide rate.
"Please, drop your act about the 2,000,000 coming out of JH I, JH II, and ORB"
Dear misguided Belial, I never said that the figures came from those reports I said that was the figure that YOU were espousing as refrenced in a cut and past from one of you comments from yesterday. Now either you can admit you wrote that and accept your responsibility and admit you are wrong, or you can continue as you always do and bilge forth more manefesto crap that does not ever prove a point only that you are indeed a lonely misguided individual.
Written by: Belial, 14 Aug 2008 3:53 PM
From: United States, Texas
I missed it because there was a blizzard of negative posts coming at me yesterday while I was trying to complete my 6-part series and respond to these vile negative posts.
I wrote Heard in London because Tex persistent posts made no sense to me. They were gibberish. But finding this post today, where he only seeks an explanation for the 2,000,000, I understand finally where Tex is coming from.
He misunderstand the genesis of the 2,000,000.
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
So in typical Belial fashion, you were distracted, did not see, I was busy, or no I really did not mean that, it was an error in typing the number. hahahahahahaha you are great, real bag of laughs. I wish you well with you life I really do.
Written by: Belial, 14 Aug 2008 4:17 PM
From: United States, Texas
"To get the almost 2,000,000 death figure, all we have to do is to pick a reasonable monthly genocide rate"
oooo
What's a "reasonable monthly genocide rate?"
Tex, we can calculate the monthly rate of genocide that US imperialists inflict on Iraq between March 2003 and October 2004 by dividing JH I's 100,000 by the number of months in this period.
This is a reasonable rate of genocide to used for the post ORB months. But to my mind, it's not preferred.
OR
We can calculate the monthly rate of genocide between Oct 2004 and Oct 2006 by subtracting JH I's 100,000 from JH II's 650,000 and dividing the result by 24 months. This too is a reasonable monthly rate of genocide for post ORB months.
OR
We can calculate the monthly genocide rate between Oct 2006 and Sept 2007 by subtracting JH II's 650,000 from ORB's 1,200,000 and dividing the result by 10 months.
This is the genocide rate during the surge.
I prefer the surge rate to find out post ORB kills.
Written by: Belial, 14 Aug 2008 4:24 PM
From: United States, Texas
Even you Tex must see that the US genocide in Iraq didn't stop with ORB's 1,200,000 in 9/07.
Question: How many Iraqis died during the months between ORB in 9/07 and the present or 8/08.
Got it? Do you understand the question and the problem?
If you use the rate of genocide that occurred during the surge, about 55,000 kills per month, then you get a number of the post ORB genocide or kills.
When you add that number to ORB;s 1,200,000, you get a number that's close to 2,000,000.
Acutally it's in high 1,800,000s, but that's close to 2,000,000.
I hope you get it and dig it.
From: United States, Richmond, Texas
Chávez not to attend Leonel Fernández's inauguration
Minister of Finance Alí Rodríguez Araque will represent the Venezuelan government next Saturday at the inauguration of Dominican President Leonel Fernández, the Venezuelan Ministry of Foreign Affairs said in a statement.- El Universal Caracas 15/08/2008
Written by: Belial, 15 Aug 2008 11:57 AM
From: United States, Texas
"Chávez not to attend Leonel Fernández's inauguration
Minister of Finance Alí Rodríguez Araque will represent the Venezuelan government next Saturday at the inauguration of Dominican President Leonel Fernández, the Venezuelan Ministry of Foreign Affairs said in a statement.- El Universal Caracas 15/08/2008"
oooo
I bet chavez went to Paraguay today for Lugo's swearing in.
Maybe Hugo didn't want to jump from Paraguay to DR in 24 hours, especially if the Paraguayans are warmer toward him than the Dominicans.
US imperialist and cappie propaganda, mostly lies, dominates the consciousness of DR, although Chavez and Venezuela have many friends in the DR.
Written by: anthonyC, 15 Aug 2008 12:38 PM
From: United States
"although Chavez and Venezuela have many friends in the DR."
Until the price of oild rops and the gravey train runs dry. Wheich looks like will be soon.
Written by: Belial, 15 Aug 2008 2:55 PM
From: United States, Texas
Havana, Aug 15 (Prensa Latina) Cuban Vice President Esteban Lazo leads his country's delegation to the swearing-in ceremony of Dominican Republic President Reelect Leonel Fernandez on August 16 in Santo Domingo.
Cuba and the Dominican Republic have excellent relations on the basis of friendship, solidarity and mutual respect, Granma newspaper reported Friday.
The Cuban delegation is also comprised of Cuban ambassador to the DR Juan Astiasaran Ceballo, and officials from the International Relations Department of the Cuban Communist Party and the Foreign Affairs Ministry.
Lazo's agenda includes meetings with Dominican authorities.
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YES, You know I believe that I am coming around to the way Belial and Scandi think. Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Lennin, Stalin, Chavez, Fidel, Noriega, Baby Doc, Mugabe, Evo, Ortega, Correa-----They are obvisouly ahead of their time, there just misunderstood, the system must work, tax everyone into poverty, redistribute the wealth, property, build usless infrastructures, (metro in DR, Light rail in Houston) think like me or else, yeah thats the ticket. OOpsss I forgot in the US we call them Liberals or Democrats, wheww glad I remembered to take my medicne.
Among others, FL [Lugo] will get Ortega of Nicaragua, Chavez of Venezuela, Correa of Ecuador, Evo of Bolivia, and Lula of Brazil.
Also confirmed for Lugo are the heads of Chile, Uruguay, Honduras, [Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner of] Argentina and Equatorial Guinea.
So, Lugo will get a mostly South American crowd, with Ortega and Zelaya sticking out as Central American exceptions.
Among others LF, [Leonel Fernandez] will get a mostly Central American and Caribbean crowd.
Confirmed for LF are the heads of Costa Rica; Guatemala, El Salvador, Panama, Haiti and Belize; plus, Venezuela, Taiwan, and Colombia.
Mexico ... once contender or pretender for regional leader ... may stay home.
Both the DR and Paraguay will get the same worn-out prince.
oooo
Tex, do you have a reason for overlooking the 2,000,000 people who have perished in Iraq since March 2003 as a result of George W. Bush lies, aggession and occupation.
None of the individuals you named above were as murderous as Bush.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org
Estimates run into the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS but 2,000,000 is FAR FETCHED. We sent you to school .. taught you to read .. taught you to write .. and what did you do? .. YOU ATE THE TEACHER!!
p. 1
If you are going to attack George Bush .. my UNLEARNED FRIEND .. at least try to get your numbers right .. 86,609–94,490 Iraqi civilians are REPORTED to have died since the INVASION and OCCUPATION of Iraq.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org
Estimates run into the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS but 2,000,000 is FAR FETCHED. We sent you to school .. taught you to read .. taught you to write .. and what did you do? .. YOU ATE THE TEACHER!!
oooo
Iraqi Body Count (IBC) doesn't identify its staff or state their qualifications.
IBC is not a peer review group like John Hopkins University.
Nor is IBC, a reputable research frim like ORB in the UK which has done research for thousands of non-military and non-spy agency clients all over the world for many years.
IBC is a propaganda outfit set up by the Pentagon savages to tell lies, cover up, or minimize the massive US-perpetrated genocide against Iraqi people that has taken almost 2,000,000 lives in only 5 years.
A war is quite different than purging your own population for a difference of opinion. The gulags of Russia is where they sent Russian people to be worked to death because the disagreed with the system under which they were living. Saddam and his sons killed olympic participants because the did not bring home gold medals. Chavez has denied over 200 individuals for running for office this November because of SUSPICION of irregularaties, not confirmed or confirmable. Fidel and Raul routinely lock up their own population because the disagree with the ideas of communisim. Mugabe has killed his OWN people to maintain the status of "President for Life". When I worked in Haiti some of my local employees told me that Baby Doc would ride around in the back of an army truck and randomly shoot poeple on the street. You know why in Democratic countries the Communist party never wins. Because they are a bunch of sniveling little twits who cry when they don't get their way
.
Remember Sadamm had killed how many/
Oh Yeah what about Stalin Bush is amateur compared to your hereos'
Like other dictators who wrote bloody chapters in 20th-century history, Mr. Hussein was primed for violence by early childhood. Born into the murderous clan culture of a village that lived off piracy on the Tigris River, he was harshly beaten by a brutal stepfather. In 1959, at age 22, he made his start in politics as one of the gunmen who botched an attempt to assassinate Iraq's first military ruler, Abdel Karim Kassem.Since then,
Continued
When you constantly quote your stats on Cuba, Venezuela and on and on from where do you get you information. I have said before, I know Cubans who are here in Houston where we both live who would be glad to inform you what the Real Cuba is like. I have invited you to go to Venezuela to see the programs set up by Chavez in Non-functioning mode and whenever this is asked of you by myself or of others you never respond just go to another story and post the same garbage. HHUUUUUMMMMMMMMMMMMM Makes me think that you have no leg to stand on, no sources to quote, no backup for your allegations, nothing but pure manifesto crap. If you are so sour on life here in the US I am sure there are some great government run medical facilities that will take you in and take care of you for the rest of your life instead of you having to earn your keep.
p. 2
IBC admits its count distorts the reality of war-mortality in Iraq.
IBS says itself:
"IBC’s documentary evidence is drawn from crosschecked media reports of violent events leading to the death of civilians, or of bodies being found, and is supplemented by the careful review and integration of hospital, morgue, NGO and official figures. "
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/about/
IBC uses"media reports." In other words, "Since I didn't read about his death in the paper, he must be alive."
IBC only counts "death of civilians." He's not a "civilian." He an "enemy combatant," therefore we can't count him as dead although the USA shoots "combatants" and "civilians."
IBC counts "bodies ... found." US imperialists throw bodies into garbage trucks or on flatbeds and bury them in mass graves dug by bulldozers. "Oh dear, we count count bodies not found."
IBC uses "hospital, morgue ... official figures" officially under the control of savage US mass murderers.
The diffeerence between a far left idoit, communist, facsist, democrat and a sensible person is that I for one will also condem Bush, Brown, Fox, whomever if they do something I think is boneheaded. But you guys would back up jack the ripper, lizzy borden, ted Bundy or who ever if it meant embarrasing someone who was middle of the road or to the right.. So Sad Belial you know what they say,
You can cure ignorance but stupidness lasts a lifetime.
Thats what 'True Americans" are all about.
P.3
IBC is a liar and it surprisingly admits it.
If somebody is too stupid to understand IBC's public admission of mendacity, then that's not IBC's problem.
IBC told its lie about war-related deaths in Iraq to get its juicy fee from the US Department of Defense, the HQ of world genocide, and IBC also exposed to its readers that its research methods are worthless and therefore its findings about the body count in Iraq are worthless.
Well said well stated-- The difference is we BELIEVE is ourselves he believes in some old broken down idea that has never worked, and to make it work you have to kill your own citizens, strike fear into the masses to make it work, that is why like in CUba people would rather risk their life getting away than stay and be miserable.
"IBC is a liar and it surprisingly admits it."
How can they be lying if the demonstrate how they compile their information. Seems to me that as transparent as it gets.
http://www.iraqfoundation.org/news/2003/ajan/27_saddam.html
Remember that he also had a PRISON FOR CHILDREN.
P. 4
FIRST GENOCIDE STUDY -- IN 2004, JOHN HOPKINS UNIVERSITY I
http://iraqmortality.org/studies/lancet
Now, I shall show about 2,000,000 war-related deaths in 5 years accurately describes the magnitude of the evil that the US imperialists are committing in Iraq.
The first major peer review study of Iraq's war-related mortality was conducted by John Hopkins University, a US school of great internationa prestige, and study was published in the UK medical journal "Lancet" in October 2004.
This study, known as JH I (or John Hopkins I), found, as of Oct. 2004, over 100,000 people had perished from war-related causes after March 2003. JH I was interrupted before completion by escalation in hostilities in Iraq in the summer of 2004. So, the interruption hinted that the body count was really above 100,000 fatal casualties.
We still use 100,000 because it's the best number we have as of Oct. 2004.
Ok and how amny of them were killed by other Iraqis? How many were killed for muslim terrorists form other countries?
" JH I was interrupted before completion by escalation in hostilities in Iraq in the summer of 2004. So, the interruption hinted that the body count was really above 100,000 fatal casualties."
So since 2004 there has been a surge and a dramatic decrease in IED'S, the radical cleric called of his dogs and things have been pretty much static since. So even if you say the number is 100,000 how do yo arrive at 2,000,000
FIRST GENOCIDE STUDY -- IN 2004, JOHN HOPKINS UNIVERSITY I
http://iraqmortality.org/studies/lancet
So if the IBC is lying than so must JHI, They both state how they gather their information and how they apply it to arrive at the results. Like I have said before you can not have it both ways. Or as we say here in Texas "it is what it is" they both report using methods that are different yet similar and they both have arrived at around 100,000 + /- so I ask once again how do you get to 2 million?????
P. 5
Having an estimated body count up to Oct 2004 -- that is, 100,0000 war related deaths and the number of months between March 2003 and October 2004 -- that is, 19, we can figure the monthly rate of genocide that the US imperialist committed against the Iraqi people"
100,000 war-related deaths / 19 months = 5,263 as the monthly genocide rate
So, the monthly rate of genocide committed by the US imperialists against the Iraqi people between Mar. 2003 and Oct. 2004 was something like 5200 kills a month.
SECOND GENOCIDE STUDY -- IN 2006, JOHN HOPKINS UNIVERSITY II
http://www.thelancet.com/webfiles....nals/lancet/s0140673606694919.pdf
This study, known as JH II (or John Hopkins II), found, as of Oct. 2006, over 650,000 people had perished from war-related causes after March 2003. JH II was also first published by the UK medical journal Lancet. Both JH studies used house-to-house interviews and asked for death certificates.
Iraq will enjoy the same wealth and freedom that their neigbors have and that is only possible through Democracy. Get used to it, it is here to stay.
P. 5
To get the body count for the 24-month period between Oct. 2004 JH I and the Oct. 2006 JH II , all we have to do is subtract 100,000 deaths from 650,000 deaths for the number 550,000.
And to get the monthly genocide rate inflicted by US murderers for the same 24-month period between Oct. 2004 and Oct. 2006, all we have to do is to divide the 550,000 deaths by 24 months to get 22, 916 as the average number people killed per month.
So, the monthly rate of genocide committed or precipitated by the US imperialists against the Iraqi people between Oct. 2004 and Oct. 2006 was something like 23,000 kills per month.
A month after JH II, the US people on Nov. 6, 2006, voted in legislative elections against the US genocide, US aggression, US oil theft, and US lies pertaining to Iraqi possession of WMDs and Iraqi complicity in 9/11 which started the terrible holocaust.
Then came the surge, not in US troop numbers but in the genocide rate.
Iraq will enjoy the same wealth and freedom that their neigbors have and that is only possible through Democracy. Get used to it, it is here to stay.
P. 5
THIRD GENOCIDE STUDY -- IN 2007, OPINION RESEARCH BUSINESS
http://www.opinion.co.uk/Newsroom_details.aspx?NewsId=78
This ORB study found, as of September 2007 over over 1.200,0000 people had perished from war-related causes after March 2003.
Let's find the number of deaths between the Oct. 2006 JH II which found over 650,000 and Sept. 2007 ORB study which found over 1.2 million dead.
So, the number of the people who died during the first 10 months of the surge (Dec. 2007 to Sept 2007) was about 550,000 [or 1.200,000 -- 650,000].
To get the monthly gencide rate. all we have to do is to divide 550, 000 casualties between Dec. 2006 and Sept. 2007 by 10 months that the period contains.
The genocide rate during the surge leaped from 23,000 to about 55,000 Iraqis deaths per month.
By September 2007 when the ORB study was released, US military commanders in Iraq were testifying happily before Congress about a US victory in Iraq.
P. 6
To get the almost 2,000,000 death figure, all we have to do is to pick a reasonable monthly genocide rate and multiply the number of months between Sept 2007 and August 2008 by the genocide rate.
Then add the number you get to 1.2 million ORB found as of Sept 2007.
But even this simple arithmetic task is to hard for an pro-imperialist idiot or scumbag.
THE END ... OF THE BODY COUNT SERIES
"9 JANUARY 2008 | GENEVA/BAGHDAD -- A large national household survey conducted by the Iraqi government and WHO estimates that 151 000 Iraqis died from violence between March 2003 and June 2006." States the World Health Organization a division of the United nations.
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2008/pr02/en/index.html
Using your own method of calculating, 151,000 divided by 39 months is 3871 per month and assuming that on a go forward basis it stayed the same from june 2006 to june 2008 that is 3871 times 24 or an additional 92,922 deaths plus 151,000 for a grand total of 243,922 deaths. I dont know but that is still about 1.6 million shy of the target you came up with. I hope you not an accountant. Did you work for Enron????
As you pointed out I have read the report as quoted by you and the OMB it clearly is a poll and not scientific and included in your numbers is a 20% of all deaths reported were by car bombs or IED planted by the same Iraqi people so how can you blame that on the US
I find it amusing that you ignored my question.
How many of these Iragi Victims were killed by other Iraqis?
How many were killed by other Muslim Terrorists?
"Calculating the affect from the margin of error we believe that the range is a minimum of 733,158 to a maximum of 1,446,063"
I ask how can all the other reports come to around + / -100,000 and this one is seven times that number at the low end................. Because it is from a left wing British polling group that disagreed with Blair.
WHO?
p. 1 of 2
What about the WHO study? ... Tex mentions.
WHO found about 150,000 Iraqi fatal casualties between March 2003 and June 2006.
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2008/pr02/en/index.html
The "WHO study" wasn't done entirely or mostly by WHO, rather it was done pro-US quisling regime in Baghdad allegedly some assistance from WHO. Since the pro-US quisling regime in Baghdad in a belligerent in the war, there is at least an "appearance" of a conflict of interest that not even WHO could have missed.
WHO says the "large national household survey [was] conducted by the Iraqi government and WHO" and a WHO statistician provided technical assistance for the survey.
This providing of technical assistance which can be accepted or rejected says that WHO was not in charge of the conduct of the study. WHO lends its name to, defends, and legitimizes a pack of lies made up by pro-US quisling regime in Baghdad.
p. 2 of 2
Not only does the pro-US quisling regime in Baghdad lacks the credibility to conduct a study for public dissemination on the casualties of the war it's currently fighting, but also WHO and the administrative staff of the UN are more of allies of US imperialism than impartial outsiders.
By May 2003, only two months after the foul and inhuman US aggression in March, there were 300 U.N. staff members in Baghdad and 646 throughout the Iraq, helping to defeat the international effort to deny diplomatic recognition to pro-US quisling regime in Baghdad.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/08/19/sprj.irq.main/
On August 20, 2003, somebody blew up 17 UN staff people in their HQin Baghdad, including among the dead were representatives of WHO? They died and became part of the body count.
The WHO were vicious toward the Iraqi people before Augsut 20 bombing, but after the bombing, WHO became and remained an animal.
"How many of these Iragi Victims were killed by other Iraqis?"
0000
I ignored it because it's irrelevant in the determination of legal and moral responsibility or culpability for the victims' deaths.
If someone initiates a process knowing that a likely result are many deaths, then it's hard to escape legal and moral responsibility for those deaths.
Say, you shout "fire" in a crowded theater and people are stomped to death.
You can't escape legal or moral responsibility by saying that the guy who shouted "fire" didn't actually stomp anybody.
Say, you start a war by telling lies about WMDs and 9/11, you can escape responsibility for this great evil by saying I didn't shoot anybody.
Most GOPs and reactionary rats disagree with this view, but this is because they are rotten to the core.
Naeema Al Gasseer, the WHO Representative to Iraq.
Some homes could not be visited because of high levels of insecurity and more people move residence in times of conflict. These factors were taken into account in the analysis as they may affect the accuracy of the survey work," said Salih Mahdi Motlab Al-Hasanawi, Minister of Health of Iraq
Fadela Chaib
WHO Department of Communications
Say you are being sought for delivery of a package and your neighbor has set a bomb to kill her ex-husband as the fedex guy hands you your package her bomb goes off and get you and the fedex guy, by your way of thinking it is the fedex guys fault???
Besides deaths, the Iraq Family Health Survey tracked health indictors such as pregnancy history, mental health status, chronic illnesses, smoking habits, sexually transmitted infections, domestic violence and heath-care spending patterns.
"Calculating the affect from the margin of error we believe that the range is a minimum of 733,158 to a maximum of 1,446,063"
I ask how can all the other reports come to around + / -100,000 and this one is seven times that number at the low end................. Because it is from a left wing British polling group that disagreed with Blair.
ooooo
Even the lower end of the margin at about 733,000 blows pro-imperialist lies about an Iraqi body count of only 100,000 to 150,000 out of the water.
Johnny Heald, ORB Managing Director,
There is a dispute in a newspaper forum of Dominican Today http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/....can-Presidents-inaugural#comments
that deals with a piece of the work product of ORB.
I would very much like to have your response.
Belial
oooo
In the report on Iraqi casualties, ORB said:
"The standard margin of error on the sample who answered (1,499) is +2.5%"
"Given that from the 2005 census there are a total of 4,050,597 households this data suggests a total of 1,220,580 deaths since the invasion in 2003. Calculating the affect from the margin of error we believe that the range is a minimum of 733,158 to a maximum of 1,446,063"
A poster, who calls himself "Tex" in a Dominican Today forum makes these comments:
A poster, who calls himself "Tex" in a Dominican Today forum makes these comments:
"Calculating the affect from the margin of error we believe that the range is a minimum of 733,158 to a maximum of 1,446,063" Tex cites your statement.
"I ask how can all the other reports come to around + / -100,000 and this one is seven times that number at the low end................. Because it is from a left wing British polling group that disagreed with Blair," Tex asks and answers.
"It says the margin of error could be 700,000 at the low and as much as 1.4 million. Pretty much bring it back in the 100,000 + / - range," Tex figures.
oooo
I pretty sure this is just gibberish from Tex, but can you make any sense of what he's saying or trying to say.
I believe that ORB study will become prominent is the US presidential campaign.
Thank you very much
Belial
oooo
Yes, GC II, it's been a long day.
They never understood the arithmetic, so they talked gibberish.
Scarlett O'Hara was a bourgeois tramp. I'm glad she's gone.
The philistines took the pounding from me. I'm eager to resume pounding them, but they need to rest.
What they can't understand is how I got from 1.2 million to almost 2 million.
I can tell you exactly how many innocents were targeted by the US Military...........ZERO!!!!
I dont see the point in whether its 100,000 or 2,000,000 iraqui when even 1 should be classified as murder by the US government since they have invaded a sovereign country without any international law to back them up. They even forced a lot of other countries to join this attack because they were too spineless to do it by their own. Then u had the Abu Graib. Us dont have any obligation to apply to international laws if it doent suit them. But hell if other countries do teh same then the "american interest" kick in. They do not approve the ICC because americans are superior to everybody else in this world and hence can commit atrocities
without beeing procecuted by the ICC. Perhaps Guantanamo.
The alibi now is that at least they managed to get rid of Saddam for the Iraqui people. So why arent the Iraquis applauding the Yanks. Beacuse they know the main reason was to rob the oil resources and nothing else.
International law.....you funny.
carbelk99, 13 Aug 2008 11:06 PM
From: United States
Hey guys why do you pay mind to Belial he is just anHaitian -African monkey like all of them with too much time in their hand Because they don t work , why do you think that he have time to answer every post? if he had a job. he will post , when he is not working.
"
lol... I am hook on phonics... keep posting they are entertaining...
oooo
Carbelk99, you are reactionary rat which reproduces with any other animal that will to lie down, resulting in an infestation of reactionary rats, which destroy crops, start plagues, and excite disgust in humans. The world catches members of your foul family in rat traps and perhaps the day will come will we will hear you, carbelk99, squeal and scream in agony as you wiggle in the trap that awaits you.
carbelk99 aka joker
The Joker is a master criminal whose characterization has varied from a violent and murderous sociopath, causing chaos and committing crimes for his own amusement, to a GOOFY and virtually harmless trickster-thief. The Joker's real identity is unknown, He has been portrayed as lying so often about his former life that he himself is confused as to what actually happened. As he says in The Killing Joke: "Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another... if I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice.
ScandiViking, thank for again posing the question. But I believe you should see the difference.
Do you see the difference between combat fatalities and murder by an evil force?
When combat between the US imperialist forces and Iraqi patriotic resistance was at its peak at about 100 clashes at day throughout Iraq, with the forces of Iraqi patriotic resistance fighting in small units of less than 20 combabtants, it's mathematically impossible to get 1,000,000 or 2,000,000 kills of Iraqis out of that situation in five years , even if the US imperialist forces wipe the whole 20-person patriotic resistance unit in every clash.
The only way to get a million kills is to round of people like Nazis and murder them wholesale.
This is what US did and does.
Do you see any major differences between US invasion of Iraq and Russians invasion of Georgia ? I think the us invasion can be seen in a more negative light, in term of the new world order.
That's the way it was reported by the US capitalist press and instantly spread around the world.
Here's what the quisling-WHO survey said itself:
"9 JANUARY 2008 | GENEVA/BAGHDAD -- A large national household survey conducted by the Iraqi government and WHO estimates that 151 000 Iraqis died from violence between March 2003 and June 2006."
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2008/pr02/en/index.html
So, the quisling/WHO study only purports to count Iraqi bodies up to 2006, not 2007 or 2008.
But in 2008, the 150,000 number from quisling/WHO (often reduced to only 100,000) was thrown around as a 2008 body count number.
This has happened in the DT forum.
FIRST: Does the 150,000 quisling/WHO number of Iraqi fatalities intended for 2006 apply to 2008, as Tex and others suggest?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Health_Ministry_casualty_survey
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-....e/2008/01/09/AR2008010902793.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-....e/2005/12/17/AR2005121700017.html
http://www.jhsph.edu/publichealth....eases/2006/burnham_iraq_2006.html
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2008/pr02/en/index.html
Onless you have an actual Body Count with the actual cause of death and by whom they may i suggest that all you are doing is spewing crap-science.
Surveys are good for tracking opnions. What they are not good for is counting based soley on annecdotal evidence.
Is this war against the Iraqi people good or evil?
Is this war profitable or costly financially?
Is the US regime winning or losing?
I argue that this war is evil because it began with a bunch of US imperial lies about WMDs and about Iraqi complicity in 9/11 and, worse, the US regime has prosecuted war by unprecedented genocide.
So, the aggressive and evil US regime should withdraw all of its troops from Iraq unconditionally.
Outside of the mass of the US people are the foul and bestial US reactionaries, mostly GOPs [but not entirely GOPs] who love and support this war against the Iraqis because it is evil.
0000
Do you believe I'm under siege or behind the siege of these clowns?
I destroyed their WHO survey which was the only thing they had to fight with.
Now they want to run and talk about Georgia or something because their evil in Iraq has been exposed.
TonyC, I think you are right and wrong about Belial, he is not a non-working Haitian, he is a non-working displaced person from New Orleans who is angry at society because he can no longer milk the system that he is accustomed to. The same system that has supported him his entire life in his mind has now abandonded him in his hour of need. The problem is it is always HIS hour and never anybody elses. Just like the same communist idols he worships, it was always about them and screw the other few million they control. I really feel sadness for your lack of compassion of your fellow man and understanding that there are greater forces at work in this world besides Karl Marx and Lenin. The black helicopters are coming for you Belial, beware always look over your shoulder. Have a great day and God bless you
"Key points of the study include:
• Estimated 654,965 additional deaths in Iraq between March 2003 and July 2006 "
even if you add the 150,000 that was being thrown around yesterday it is still less than one million, which still today put your number as presented by using your same source about 1 million shy of the 2 million mark that you cried about yesterday.
You are going to have to try harder my friend, but that is probably why you do not because it is work.
oo
Sorry, I missed this.
They didn't get to 2,000,000 and nobody ever said they did.
JH I got 100,000 in 2004 and JH II got 650,000 in 2006.
Neither said anything about 2,000,000.
I calculated as I explained in detailed with the numbers in my posts here the monthly rate of genocide using the data and findings of JH I and JH II.
By adding the results from the genocide rate for months after the completion of JH I and JH II and ORB, you get a number that is close to 2,000,000.
Please, drop your act about the 2,000,000 coming out of JH I, JH II, and ORB.
BODY COUNT
P. 6
To get the almost 2,000,000 death figure, all we have to do is to pick a reasonable monthly genocide rate and multiply the number of months between Sept 2007 and August 2008 by the genocide rate.
"Please, drop your act about the 2,000,000 coming out of JH I, JH II, and ORB"
Dear misguided Belial, I never said that the figures came from those reports I said that was the figure that YOU were espousing as refrenced in a cut and past from one of you comments from yesterday. Now either you can admit you wrote that and accept your responsibility and admit you are wrong, or you can continue as you always do and bilge forth more manefesto crap that does not ever prove a point only that you are indeed a lonely misguided individual.
I wrote Heard in London because Tex persistent posts made no sense to me. They were gibberish. But finding this post today, where he only seeks an explanation for the 2,000,000, I understand finally where Tex is coming from.
He misunderstand the genesis of the 2,000,000.
oooo
What's a "reasonable monthly genocide rate?"
Tex, we can calculate the monthly rate of genocide that US imperialists inflict on Iraq between March 2003 and October 2004 by dividing JH I's 100,000 by the number of months in this period.
This is a reasonable rate of genocide to used for the post ORB months. But to my mind, it's not preferred.
OR
We can calculate the monthly rate of genocide between Oct 2004 and Oct 2006 by subtracting JH I's 100,000 from JH II's 650,000 and dividing the result by 24 months. This too is a reasonable monthly rate of genocide for post ORB months.
OR
We can calculate the monthly genocide rate between Oct 2006 and Sept 2007 by subtracting JH II's 650,000 from ORB's 1,200,000 and dividing the result by 10 months.
This is the genocide rate during the surge.
I prefer the surge rate to find out post ORB kills.
Question: How many Iraqis died during the months between ORB in 9/07 and the present or 8/08.
Got it? Do you understand the question and the problem?
If you use the rate of genocide that occurred during the surge, about 55,000 kills per month, then you get a number of the post ORB genocide or kills.
When you add that number to ORB;s 1,200,000, you get a number that's close to 2,000,000.
Acutally it's in high 1,800,000s, but that's close to 2,000,000.
I hope you get it and dig it.
Minister of Finance Alí Rodríguez Araque will represent the Venezuelan government next Saturday at the inauguration of Dominican President Leonel Fernández, the Venezuelan Ministry of Foreign Affairs said in a statement.- El Universal Caracas 15/08/2008
Minister of Finance Alí Rodríguez Araque will represent the Venezuelan government next Saturday at the inauguration of Dominican President Leonel Fernández, the Venezuelan Ministry of Foreign Affairs said in a statement.- El Universal Caracas 15/08/2008"
oooo
I bet chavez went to Paraguay today for Lugo's swearing in.
Maybe Hugo didn't want to jump from Paraguay to DR in 24 hours, especially if the Paraguayans are warmer toward him than the Dominicans.
US imperialist and cappie propaganda, mostly lies, dominates the consciousness of DR, although Chavez and Venezuela have many friends in the DR.
Until the price of oild rops and the gravey train runs dry. Wheich looks like will be soon.
Cuba and the Dominican Republic have excellent relations on the basis of friendship, solidarity and mutual respect, Granma newspaper reported Friday.
The Cuban delegation is also comprised of Cuban ambassador to the DR Juan Astiasaran Ceballo, and officials from the International Relations Department of the Cuban Communist Party and the Foreign Affairs Ministry.
Lazo's agenda includes meetings with Dominican authorities.