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New York.– In the fifteenth century, spice merchants were looking for an easier route to Asia. They traveled south past Africa, around the Cape of Good Hope, and continued eastward. Christopher Columbus convinced Queen Isabella of Spain that it would be easier to sail directly west and find the rich treasures of India and Asia. A new route would be found, he said, and possible new lands for Spain.

Columbus first asked Queen Isabella for help in 1486, but it was years before she agreed... provided that he conquer some of the islands and mainland for Spain. Columbus would also be given the title of "Admiral of All the Ocean Seas," and receive one-tenth of the riches that came from any of his discoveries.

Finally, on August 3, 1492, he and ninety men set sail on the flagship Santa Maria. Two other ships, the Nina and the Pinta, came with him. They sailed west. Three long months went by. His men became tired and sick, and threatened to turn the ships back. Columbus encouraged them, certain that they would find the spice trail to the East. On October 11th, ten o'clock at night, Columbus saw a light. The Pinta kept sailing, and reported that the light was, in fact, land. The next morning at dawn they landed.

Christopher Columbus and his crew had expected to see people native to India, or be taken to see the great leader Khan. They called the first people they saw "Indians." They had gone ashore in their best clothes, knelt and praised God for arriving safely. From the "Indians" they learned that the island was called Guanahani. Columbus christened it San Salvador and claimed it immediately for Spain.

When they landed on the island that is now Cuba, they thought they were in Japan. After three subsequent voyages, Columbus was still unenlightened. He died a rich and famous man, but he never knew that he discovered lands that few people had imagined were there.

Few celebrations marked the discovery until hundreds of years later. The continent was not even named after Columbus, but an Italian explorer named Amerigo Vespucci. In 1792, a ceremony was held in New York honoring Columbus, and a monument was dedicated to him.

Soon after that, the city of Washington was officially named the District of Columbia and became the capital of the United States. In 1892, a statue of Columbus was raised at the beginning of Columbus Avenue in New York City. At the Columbian Exposition held in Chicago that year, replicas of Columbus's three ships were displayed.

Americans might not have a Columbus Day if Christopher Columbus had not been born in Italy. Out of pride for their native son, the Italian population of New York City organized the first celebration of the discovery of America on October 12, 1866. The next year, more Italian organizations in other cities held banquets, parades and dances on that date. In 1869, when Italians of San Francisco celebrated October 12, they called it Columbus Day.

In 1905, Colorado became the first state to observe a Columbus Day. Over the next few decades other states followed. In 1937, then President Franklin Roosevelt proclaimed every October 12 as Columbus Day. Since 1971, it has been celebrated on the second Monday in October.

Although it is generally accepted that Christopher Columbus was the first European to have discovered the New World of the Americas, there is still some controversy over this claim. Some researchers and proponents of other explorers attribute the first sightings to the early Scandinavian Vikings or the voyages of Irish missionaries which predate the Columbus visit in 1492. The controversy may never be fully resolved to everyone's satisfaction, but 1992 marked the 500th anniversary of the Columbus discovery.

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COMMENTS
123 comment(s)
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Written by: abc200, 12 Oct 2008 10:59 AM
From: United Kingdom
Columbus and the conquistadors that followed brought great misery fo the people of the New World. There is no cause to celibrate - Columbus was a pioneer slaver - an exceptionally brutal man in a brutal age.
http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2006/10/columbus_the_fa.html
Nowdays fascists in America use Columbus day to advance their agenda.
S.
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Written by: Euromax, 12 Oct 2008 12:11 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Bona, The holy land of the west
ohh well, it brought you and me also lol
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 12 Oct 2008 1:41 PM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
Columbus and the conquistadors that followed brought great misery fo the people of the New World "says the wanker.....but now the indigenous peoples have television and plastic bags and many other fine things but we must remember they gave us that disease you suffer with abc chronic syphlis soon what is left of your little brain will fall out through your anus
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Written by: abc200, 12 Oct 2008 1:50 PM
From: United Kingdom
Standard of education on this board is very low......... They are experimenting with brain stem cell implants in China for those with various types of dementia ( sorry that is a long word ! ).
S.
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 12 Oct 2008 1:58 PM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
we are celibrating long words monsieur wanker assuming that is the same as celebrating
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Written by: abc200, 12 Oct 2008 2:33 PM
From: United Kingdom
Carry on your celibate life! Carry on up the Khyber - Do you remind me of Kenneth Williams?
Enjoy your tiffin!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxX7YW_97QU
S.
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Written by: abc200, 12 Oct 2008 2:42 PM
From: United Kingdom
What will the quiet people do in the present situation?
"
It is known, to the force of a single pound weight, what the engine will do; but not all the calculators of the National debt can tell me the capacity for good or evil, for love or hatred, for patriotism or discontent, for the decomposition of virtue into vice, or the reverse, at any single moment in the soul of one of these quiet servants, with the composed faces and the regulated actions.
"
Dickens - Hard Times.

S.

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Written by: dreadlocks, 12 Oct 2008 3:30 PM
From: United States
abc, it is a case of " whose ox is being gored". to those of us who do not celebrate exploitation, misery, victimisation and slavery, columbus was a miserable, criminal type of creature, who betrayed the trust of people who assumed he had virtue. he built up the confidence in him by appearing to be a decent human being, then betrayed the indigenous peoples of the new world. i fail to understand how anyone can see this monstrous creature as any kind of hero. he did nothing more than usher in an era wherein a legion of monstrous european predators decimated the existing population with disease and murder. yet, there is a holiday to celebrate his antics, and some see him as a hero. he is claimed to have "discovered" the new world, because he was the first european to set foot there. so why is not Hannibal the man who discovered Italy?
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Written by: Trujillo, 12 Oct 2008 4:02 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Stop being a moron. It's sad how some still don't want to recognize the importace of this date.
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Written by: dreadlocks, 12 Oct 2008 4:09 PM
From: United States
Trujillo, i see you learned a new word today ;"moron". is that the way you describe those who disagree with you? well, i wear it as a badge of honor, if it differentiates me from an imbecile such as you. it is people such as yourself who have caused people like Manhattanite to characterise DT as the "boondocks of the internet". why don't you go to other fora, such as the Washington Post, or other newspaper, and observe the intellectual level there? you might learn a new word every day!
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Written by: yumnuk3, 12 Oct 2008 6:00 PM
From: United States, New York City
I submit that instead of recognizing Columbus Day as a Hemet or San Jacinto holiday, why not have a “First Peoples Day” in honor of the Native Americans of the area and of the first settlers of the Continent ?
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 12 Oct 2008 6:12 PM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
we should have stayed in europe and allowed these savages to keep ripping each others hearts out in human sacrifice they were so advanced they were almost ready to discover the wheel ....this is revisionist horse puckey from phony educators with phony degrees ...the same idiots that brought us Ebonics and that so authentic festival of Kwanzaa invented by the peace love and groovies in Dashikis ...the discovery of the American continent puts these ignorant lilliputians into perspective
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Written by: dreadlocks, 12 Oct 2008 6:25 PM
From: United States
savages? you mean like the guys who gave us the inquisition, the crusades, and the world wars? or the ones who invented atomic bombs, to kill hundreds of thousands in one fell swoop. again, GC, it is a matter of whose ox is being gored. white people feel that kwanzaa is ridiculous, because it is black. why should black people have to believe in a white God? what do you think white people would say if some scholar said he had proof that Jesus was black? there is nothing revisionist about an opinion of Columbus. revisionism seeks to change facts. nobody seeks to deny that columbus got here first from europe. black people just do not see him as a hero. the belief that the white man did black people a favor, because they can now drink Starbucks coffee and wear armani suits is tripe. you do not miss what you never had.
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Written by: yumnuk3, 12 Oct 2008 6:43 PM
From: United States, New York City
How would the wheel be useful without beasts of burden? They actually did have wheels. But they didn't use it as Europeans/Asians/Indians did. The Tenochcas/Mayas constructed metropolises with no wheel, amazing right?
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Written by: dreadlocks, 12 Oct 2008 6:53 PM
From: United States
GC reminds us that the savages, as he charitably describes them, were guilty of "human sacrifice". maybe he can offer his opinion of throwing christians to lions. or, the more latter day pastime of lynching, with all the young uns in attendance to enjoy the entertainment. calling people savages is treading down a slippery slope
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Written by: yumnuk3, 12 Oct 2008 6:57 PM
From: United States, New York City
The Mayan prophecy foretells of the coming of the New Age. 2012 marks the completion of one galactic year for the Milky Way Galaxy. This solar system is getting exposed to Torsion wave energy from the center of the galaxy. This energy transmutates RNA/DNA and elevates consciousness. There is a global shift of consciousness taking place as a result. Humanity will return to fully conscious beings of light once again when we are ready.
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Written by: yumnuk3, 12 Oct 2008 7:06 PM
From: United States, New York City
The savages as he describes. have The Mayan calendar the most accurate ever created and that it mysteriously ends at the year 2012.
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Written by: yumnuk3, 12 Oct 2008 7:14 PM
From: United States, New York City
Ancient Maya discovered two fundamental ideas in mathematics: positional value and the concept of zero.
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Written by: yumnuk3, 12 Oct 2008 7:52 PM
From: United States, New York City
The Maya particularly picked the date of December 21st 2012, an end date of this calendar rather than a start date because they had calculated that on that date the Sun would be in the 'exact center of the Milky Way Galaxy,
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 12 Oct 2008 8:00 PM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
numnuts how about Erich von Däniken same malarky
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Written by: yumnuk3, 12 Oct 2008 8:03 PM
From: United States, New York City
gouletcolonial, We're all human, we agree to disagree sometimes, and it can't be helped.
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Written by: yumnuk3, 12 Oct 2008 9:23 PM
From: United States, New York City
Christopher Columbus Facts. He never set foot in mainland america. He wasn't searching for america. He died in disgrace after being convicted of atrocities carried out on the natives.
.
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Written by: Jander, 12 Oct 2008 9:48 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Aside from the stories that accuse Columbus of wiping out some primitive tribes which probably have been exaggerated. You have to wonder what the fate of the slaves who were brought to this part of the world would have been if left alone . Whatever it is I think it is time to move on.

I grew up around around Native Americans and back then the chip that most of them had on their shoulder and their defiance to conform even in the 20th century was detrimental to their race.

Life to is to short to be angry about what might have been.

For Blacks/African Americans ,

It is getting better slowly but better

http://www.census.gov/pubinfo/www/multimedia/AfricanAm.html

http://www.census.gov/pubinfo/www/multimedia/AfricanAm.html
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Written by: anthonyC, 13 Oct 2008 8:25 AM
From: United States
"Written by: dreadlocks, 12 Oct 2008 6:25 PM
From: United States
savages? you mean like the guys who gave us the inquisition, the crusades, and the world wars? "

The Natrive Americans practiced War and slavery as well.

Ohh and don't forget ritual human sacrifice!!!
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Written by: anthonyC, 13 Oct 2008 8:26 AM
From: United States
"Written by: yumnuk3, 12 Oct 2008 9:23 PM
From: United States
Christopher Columbus Facts. He never set foot in mainland america."

You are wrong. Om his later voyages he landed in what is now Panama.
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Written by: yumnuk3, 13 Oct 2008 8:36 AM
From: United States, New York City
The Truth Hurts!
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Written by: Edward, 13 Oct 2008 9:59 AM
From: United States, Leominster, Massachusetts
happy "asesino de indios day!"
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Written by: baldoria23, 13 Oct 2008 11:09 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera, M.T.S.
It's a fact that the first euro contact w/ the new world ushered an era of exploitation, domination, and dehumanization of aboriginal people which continues today vis-a-vis non-whites. Euro contact w/ the new world was inevitable, but could it have been different? moreover, could our current reality be different?

Is it necessary to live in a society that seems to pride itself on excess and exploitation? Don't we realize that our luxuries come at the price of the lives and dignity of so many people? and that these oppressed people are systematically marginalized and disenfranchized so that their voice, if they dare speak, is so feeble and chastised that change is seen as impossible.

Look at how some in this forum react when a "different" reality is presented. This oppressive system is presented as "natural" and "legitimate" so that any alternate views are derided as extremist or unrealistic. Try to challenge yourselves and think of a society where ALL live in dignity!
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 13 Oct 2008 11:17 AM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
Baldy the whiner returns to play the victim card again .....colour me surprised....get over it loser
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Written by: anthonyC, 13 Oct 2008 11:19 AM
From: United States
The Native Americans were a backwards, savge people who practiced War, Slavery, RITUAL HUMAN SACRIFICE and in some cases CANIBALISM!!!

The Europeans weren't saints but compared to the Indians they were Mother Theresa.
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 13 Oct 2008 11:19 AM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
we await the explanation of his dream paradise unicorns and all .....but for sure some socialistic junk is on its way.....get your rubber boots on cause here comes a load
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Written by: baldoria23, 13 Oct 2008 11:20 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera, M.T.S.
Moreover, those who benefit form the system do not see anything wrong w/ it. They defend it and present it as natural. Since the dominant group control the media, education, cul, pol & econ power, they are able to present this reality as "natural"; they are able to define our goals and the means by which we achieve them. Moreover, they are able to label what is legitimate and what is not.

Foucault said that systems of power sustain themselves by being able to define the limits of what is "good" from what is "bad." If the elites, who have control of channels of communication, and are able to define what is "good," are we suprise when they define themselves and their traits as "good" and the rest as "bad"? And are we surprised when these elites use education to create a docile society which quitely accepts the "norms" presented to them that maintain the status quo in place? If our reality is so "good", why not teach postcolonial philosophy? why are we threaten w/ challenges to it?
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 13 Oct 2008 11:22 AM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
baldy reality calls.....listen
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Written by: baldoria23, 13 Oct 2008 11:33 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera, M.T.S.
oh, GC returns to play the role of the fool - which I believe he's up for an academy award for doing such a believable portrayal of a person w/o a brain. GC, it amazes me that you are able to even type your own name.

How about this- and I know it takes you time and effort to understand things - people who resort to name calling, are simpletons w/o a point. Revolutionaries are far from whiners, they are heroes trying to push society forward. The people who particiapted in the Boston Tea party were not whiners; Gandhi was not a whiner; Mandela was not a whiner. If anything, people who are brave enough to speak against the status quo are our bravest people. Anyone can swim downstream, but it takes a true swimmer to swim upstream!

You my dear sir/madam, are just a turd floating downstream who does nothing but foul the water around you!
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Written by: dreadlocks, 13 Oct 2008 11:48 AM
From: United States
baldoria, you object to the term whiner, because you see it the same way i do. to white supremacists on this forum, a whiner is someone detects injustice, and will not just shut up. in their minds, God created a pecking order, which finds the white man at the top. anyone who challenges that doctrine is a heretical "whiner", fit only to be ostracised and insulted. they make repeated mention of the fact that african societies had slaves, as if anyone denies that. they assert that there was human sacrifice, a fact of history that we all concede. they then defend their atrocities by saying that the african versions were "more atrocious". that is the point at which i find them to be indefensibly nonsensical, and withdraw any attempt to reason with them. can the obdurate anthonyc define for me how he arrives at his chart of savagery? might he tell me what the africans practised which was more savage and bestial than throwing people to raging carnivorous animals for sport?
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Written by: dreadlocks, 13 Oct 2008 11:52 AM
From: United States
and, when he and his fellow travellers in white supremacy attempt to adumbrate the rubrics, please set them out in an academic framework which can be readliy understood and demystified. you see, i never attempt to tell people that they should not be racists, or white supremacists, or anything. that is a matter of their choosing. i just ask them to be honest about it, and stop the relativist analysis. it is like trying to say" your guys did bad things too, so our hands are clean"
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 13 Oct 2008 12:03 PM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
whiners are people who are failures at what they do and try to blame someone else for their failures ....oh yes someone or group is always conspiring against them ....they would be huge successes if not for these people person or group who prevented them from winning ....so what is the use of trying they say...the government should change the rules for them because that is the reason they are failures ....it is unimportant what their race creed or colour is they are obsessed with whatever it is they are whining about....politics....religion or race.....if the shoe fits
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Written by: dreadlocks, 13 Oct 2008 12:23 PM
From: United States
GC, i came to the conclusion a while back that people such as yourself and anthonyc are not equipped with the conceptual tools to mount an argument with any degree of academic merit. trying to reason with you just leads to an interchange of barbs and insults, and i am past that foolishness, at least for now. so go ahead in your belief that people who decry racism are whiners. continue to believe that the oppressed of the world should take their medicine like men, and shut up. better yet, why don't you just make a proclamation, countersigned by your white supremacist fellow travellers, that there is no such thing as racism, and that it was the pernicious imagining of a bunch of whiners?
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 13 Oct 2008 1:05 PM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
I will not dignify your Afronazi rants with an answer....except to say the winners in your race are not whiners
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 13 Oct 2008 1:07 PM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
but to you they are Toms and sell outs I suppose .....I have heard your broken record before
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Written by: baldoria23, 13 Oct 2008 1:14 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera, M.T.S.
GC - the whiner. Blah, blah, blah, blah. GC's comments are thsoe of a loser/simpleton w/ nothing to say. Whiner whiner whiner.

You peace of whinning manure... go spread your flith elsewhere and leave DT to people who like to engage in dialogue.

Whiner whiner whiner.
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Written by: baldoria23, 13 Oct 2008 1:15 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera, M.T.S.
GC whines b/c he doesn't understand the points made by Dreadlocks and others. He doesn't even understand his own points.

whiner...
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Written by: dreadlocks, 13 Oct 2008 1:21 PM
From: United States
i cannot mount any kind of response to your argument, as i do not know what you define as a "winner". to me, Martin Luther King was a winner. Rosa Parks was a winner. Ralph Abernathy, Mohammed Ali, guys like those. to you , they are, or were, whiners. Rosa should have shut up, because the back of the bus was made for niggers, not for good, clean , white folk. and that loudmouth Mohammed Ali, refusing to kill people with whom he had no beef! how dare he have his own opinion???!!! when the white man wants his opinion, he will give it to him. to you, the winners are the black guys who shut up and fold into the mainstream, when they have made some riches. Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan, guys who are afraid to lose commercial endorsements. and the hucksters who get on the talk show radio circus, claiming to be "black conservatives". they are the losers; they make good money, but everybody realises thye have no dignity.
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Written by: yumnuk3, 13 Oct 2008 1:26 PM
From: United States, New York City
defending christopher columbus is no different then defending OJ SIMPSON ...........you will not win!.
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Written by: yumnuk3, 13 Oct 2008 1:27 PM
From: United States, New York City
wtf.
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 13 Oct 2008 1:28 PM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
Afronazi Afrocentric rubbish as usual ....
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Written by: dreadlocks, 13 Oct 2008 1:36 PM
From: United States
GC, maybe, just maybe, one day you will be taken seriously by people who have even the most minimal degree of intellectual firepower. in order to qualify for those considerations, you should at least display a tendency toward original thought. maybe if you could expand your vocabulary to include something more innovative than talk show wit-words, such as Afronazi, i would regard you more seriously. but your entire array of terminology appears to be borrowed from the likes of Rush and Hannity. some of us did not join this forum to be regaled with the ideas of avowed racists like those. if , and when, you decide to offer something you thought up yourself, and frame it within the parameters of logic, then i will be at ease to discourse with you. 6 word rejoinders do not qualify as argument, at least, not to me.
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Written by: PuntaCanaMike, 13 Oct 2008 1:41 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Chris would be up against crimes against humanity courts if he accomplished what he did then....now.

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Written by: dreadlocks, 13 Oct 2008 1:51 PM
From: United States
most assuredly, PuntaCana Mike. but the argument that is usually given is that "it was acceptable then". some people believe that; i just happen to believe that throwing christians to lions in 65AD was no worse, nor better, than it would be today. i am sure the vernacular of those times included the word "evil".
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Written by: yumnuk3, 13 Oct 2008 2:22 PM
From: United States, New York City
The Inca Empire developed in the northern Andes during the 1400s. The Incas formed this civilization through careful and meticulous governmental management. The government sponsored the construction of aqueducts and roads, some of which, like those created by the Romans, are still in existence today.
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Written by: yumnuk3, 13 Oct 2008 2:26 PM
From: United States, New York City
Not bad for backwards, savage people.
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Written by: yumnuk3, 13 Oct 2008 2:26 PM
From: United States, New York City
Ultra right wing brains simply don't function. Their CRT scans show minimal activity in brain areas that deal with tuthful conflicting information.
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Written by: anthonyC, 13 Oct 2008 2:51 PM
From: United States
"Written by: yumnuk3, 13 Oct 2008 2:22 PM
From: United States
The Inca Empire developed in the northern Andes during the 1400s. The Incas formed this civilization through careful and meticulous governmental management. The government sponsored the construction of aqueducts and roads, some of which, like those created by the Romans, are still in existence today. "

And yet a couple of hundred Spaniards conquered them! Not much of a civilazation huh?
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Written by: dreadlocks, 13 Oct 2008 4:04 PM
From: United States
anthonyc, in his indefatigable proclivity for bewildering stupidity, makes yet another remark which is beneath reply. he seems to believe that civilisations are , or should be, measured by their abilities to wage warfare. i guess, in microcosm, we can say that a person such as Einstein should not be given much credit for intellectual sophistication, because it is quite likely that he could have been defeated in a fight by a street thug.
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Written by: yumnuk3, 13 Oct 2008 4:17 PM
From: United States, New York City
Written by: anthonyC, 27 Jul 2008 12:17 AM
From: United States
"not the usual Caucasoid slime self-servingly defending imperialism, colonialism and neo-colonialism."

And then they wonder why we call Belail and his buddies racist.

Don't even bother to reply. it will only make you look even more like the ignorant, hateful racist pig you are.
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Written by: yumnuk3, 13 Oct 2008 4:31 PM
From: United States, New York City
practice what you preach.
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Written by: abc200, 13 Oct 2008 5:15 PM
From: United Kingdom
The good people of the USA could celibrate Bastille day instead. Off with their heads - the pig aristocrats I mean. I could publically denounce a long list of the bourgeiosie.
Or perhaps Joan of Arc day. The USA committed a travesty by casting Bergman at 33 as this teenage virgin heroine in the 1948 film. the 1928 film La Passion de Jeanne D'Arc is superior.
S.
.
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 13 Oct 2008 5:23 PM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
the Inca were bewildered by man on horseback they had never seen a horse and were treated as Gods thus a 50 something year old man and a couple of hundred battle hardened men defeated a primitive even more superstitious civilization......they are not to be mourned any more than the ancient Egyptians or the Greeks or the Tartars....screw them
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Written by: baldoria23, 13 Oct 2008 6:24 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera, M.T.S.
GC, the whiner. com'on. just stop making silly points. Oh, wait a minute, you tried to make a legitimate point. yes, superstition played a large part. The inca emperor sent gold to the conquistador, thinking they ate gold, and hoping that by sending gold they would assuage the invaders' hunger, but instead the gold goaded the conquistadors forward.

It's amazing and tragic how fast the Inca empire fell. But just b/c the political structure of the inca fell, doesn't mean the inca culture was desseminated. Just go to the highlands of Peru and Ecuador, and you'll see how vibrant the inca culture continues and is flourishing.

GC your whining is so perverse that we can't even recognize when you try to make a point.
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Written by: yumnuk3, 13 Oct 2008 6:57 PM
From: United States, New York City
People who actually have rational thought dont consider anything to be stupid. only ignorant people can perceive stupidity, because they dont concede that they do not understand reality 100% and dont pretend to. so because you dont understand it and you dont want to take the time to understand it to see if its real, you feel the need to generalize and put yourself in a group that has your same view. .
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Written by: anthonyC, 13 Oct 2008 8:31 PM
From: United States
" he seems to believe that civilisations are , or should be, measured by their abilities to wage warfare"

OF course they should.
Think of the great Civilazations.....Carthage, Greece, Rome, Spain, England. All great conquerors.

"
we can say that a person such as Einstein should not be given much credit for intellectual sophistication, because it is quite likely that he could have been defeated in a fight by a street thug.:

Einstein was funded by the US and it's military.

Dread....I bet you got beat up alot in school.
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Written by: yumnuk3, 13 Oct 2008 9:06 PM
From: United States, New York City
Oh My God!
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Written by: dreadlocks, 13 Oct 2008 9:22 PM
From: United States
yumnuk, pay no attention to anthonyc. to him, idiocy is a sport. actually, it is precisely because i never got beat up in school that i do not have the need to visit violence upon anyone else. security in one's self expunges such demons. and education prevents me from being a rampaging jackass. don't you , at least occasionally, wish you were educated?
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Written by: dreadlocks, 13 Oct 2008 9:24 PM
From: United States
by the way, anthonyc, do you know the origins of the concept "civilisation"? i know you will run and consult wikipedia for the roots of the word, but at present you seem not to know. you appear to wear ignorance as a badge of honor
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Written by: yumnuk3, 13 Oct 2008 9:25 PM
From: United States, New York City
Dreadlocks, The Maya's had an extremely complicated method of keeping track of time, ... Also, they were able to predict every solar and lunar eclipse until this day. ...
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Written by: dreadlocks, 13 Oct 2008 9:34 PM
From: United States
yumnuk, anthonyc has no interest in interest in intellectual pursuit and achievement. no point mentioning such accomplishments to him. tell him about bombs , guns and missiles, and he is happy. and to think that he has the unmitigated gall to call people "savage". now he informs us that Spain was a "great civilisation". why do i bother? to think that one could be blogging with sensible people..oh,dear.
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Written by: yumnuk3, 13 Oct 2008 9:37 PM
From: United States, New York City
Bingo!
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Written by: yumnuk3, 13 Oct 2008 9:41 PM
From: United States, New York City
Dread, Google the Olmec civilization one of the first civilizations in the Americas.
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Written by: dreadlocks, 13 Oct 2008 9:45 PM
From: United States
you know what is so funny about this whole issue? tough guy anthonyc would whine like a girl if some street thug put a glock to his face. it is always guys like him who have to act tough to compensate. you know, like the guys who have to swagger and preen, because they have two inches down below.
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Written by: yumnuk3, 13 Oct 2008 9:57 PM
From: United States, New York City
He's afraid of his own shadow!
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Written by: yumnuk3, 13 Oct 2008 10:30 PM
From: United States, New York City
Dread, We are intelligent and perceptive as individuals, but mindless and thoughtless as a whole.
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 13 Oct 2008 11:13 PM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
If they put your brains in a matchbox they would be like BBs in a boxcar
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 13 Oct 2008 11:18 PM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
dread denounces his own Anglo Saxon cultural background and is seduced to live in a Spanish cultural one yet he refuses to accept the very reasons he is drawn to it . He says as a proud Scot... " now he informs us that Spain was a "great civilisation".....{speaking of Tonyc}... His self loathing knows no bounds
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Written by: dreadlocks, 13 Oct 2008 11:21 PM
From: United States
actually, yumnuk, i like to think that the collective is mindless and thoughtless because there are more cretins than intelligent people, and the cretins always seem to overpower the intelligent people. as a numerical collective, they represent a superior arsenal, and their intellectual dissonance drowns out any semblance of logic which tries to emerge. it is the sociological version of Gresham's Law, which states that bad money drives out good.
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 13 Oct 2008 11:24 PM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
numnuts3 ...dreams of ancient civilizations comic book style and go on about their noble ways such malarky and horse puckey
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 13 Oct 2008 11:31 PM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
now we return to the old saw " all the intelligent ones have fled no one left but us....you have driven them all away " as he pines for his old private sounding board inhabited with the other graduates of clown school who have long gone
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Written by: yumnuk3, 13 Oct 2008 11:32 PM
From: United States, New York City
you have nothing intelligent to offer!
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Written by: dreadlocks, 13 Oct 2008 11:34 PM
From: United States
actually, GC, by the definitions laid out by the white man, the one drop rule, i am a black man. and, there is no self loathing there. i am black, and proud of it. no confusion here, my man. i cannot gain acceptance into the white world by declaring that my grandfather was from scotland. i do not need people's approval and permission to be black. and, i do not need some paternalistic caucasian to tell me how to think about the race issue; i have been black all my life. i remember standing in a parking lot on Water Street in New York, waiting for the attendant to get my car. i was dressed in the formal attire required of employees in the financial district. two white guys from Jersey walked up to me, and tried to hand me their parking receipts, so i could go get their car. i was seething, but i ignored them. one then said "What are you waiting for; we are in a hurry"? had i been white, do you think they would have assumed that i park cars for a living?
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Written by: dreadlocks, 13 Oct 2008 11:42 PM
From: United States
you see, GC, i have been to Canada, the so called "more racially civilized" paradise on numerous occasions. i can never remember any occasion in which i was not harrassed in immigration and customs. i would watch them raking all the black folks over the coals, while they waved white people through. when these things do not happen to you, you do not understand them. when you have walked a mile in my shoes, come back and lecture me on racism. you will be better equipped ,then.
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 13 Oct 2008 11:43 PM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
I have you confused with some one who was raised in an Anglo Saxon place where they probably still wear wigs in the court room and drink vast amounts of hot tea and speak the queens English and look to London for their direction....excuse me ...You did not have to play the race card on me ...just tell us you were born in a dashiki and all that other stuff counts for nothing
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Written by: yumnuk3, 13 Oct 2008 11:50 PM
From: United States, New York City
GC, Not even funny.What world do you live in?
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Written by: dreadlocks, 13 Oct 2008 11:55 PM
From: United States
what does where i was born have anything to do with my fortunes as a person? was Nelson Mandela not born in a similar setting? what does being born in a certain country have to do with racism? listen GC, i have moved into white neighborhoods on Long Island and seen the guy next door put up a "for sale " sign on his house the next day. he never even bothered to find out what kind of people we were. he knew. i have lived through the indignity of seeing the parents of my son's girlfriend disown her for dating a black man. the kid is a college graduate, from good family stock on both sides, but they considered him an undesirable for his color. so, i do not need your thoughts on the issue. i know where i have been, my friend.
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 14 Oct 2008 12:06 AM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
Dread you do not need to tell me of the phony superior attitudes Canadians have about race I am well aware and have been ever since I moved to the USA .It was Dick Gregory in the sixties that said "Canada is very good to its black people {pause} both of them ".you moved to NYC I moved to the deep south in the early sixties something you talked about but you know nothing about except in your dreams I was there for the" Days of Dogs and Hoses" and Dread I also lived many years in a Black Society where I was hated for being white and you know it{USVI}..I have a white friend in Kingston as we speak who cannot go about unescorted by a Jamaican or he will be threatened with violence and you know it and you know him personally..I am more aware of the racial tensions in those places than you can believe .far more so than your average honky.I try to prepare my children who are of colour everyday to live with dignity and pride and I fear for them and the ignorance they may not be prepared for
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 14 Oct 2008 12:11 AM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
the backgrounds that form us are who we are and what we are for better or worse it is not to be denied in that sense we are multicultural
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Written by: yumnuk3, 14 Oct 2008 12:13 AM
From: United States, New York City
Gouletcolonial, stop being so afraid and defensive You have no reason for shame. You are not responsible for the actions of anyone besides yourself, and especially no one hundreds of years ago. Just as living Americans have no responsibility for slavery, and your children should not be responsible for what you did.
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Written by: dreadlocks, 14 Oct 2008 12:15 AM
From: United States
GC, i am all too familiar with the black backlash in the caribbean; i lived in the british caribbean for many years. it was a response to centuries of abuse. i do not condone it, and have never espoused any form of racism as my personal guideline. but, i can assure you that if blacks were the majority in the USA, as they are in the caribbean, you would have seen a bloodbath in america.
i have never counselled my children to stay from anyone because of his color; i cannot say the same for people i have met in my lifetime.
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 14 Oct 2008 12:16 AM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
and remember Dread if Tiger Woods the republican moved in next door to that guy on long island ....He still would have put up a for sale sign only difference ....he would be asking for four times as much just for the privilege
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Written by: dreadlocks, 14 Oct 2008 12:19 AM
From: United States
that assumes he took the time to find out before he moved. if noboby alerted him to the fact, he would have left just as quickly, since Tiger is several shades darker than i am.
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 14 Oct 2008 12:23 AM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
why dont you return to your british roots if you hate the spanish so much why do you live in a spanish culture .....this is self loathing
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 14 Oct 2008 12:26 AM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
do not say it is not Spanish ,...I also lived in Spain for four years and it is Spanish the DR very Spanish
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Written by: abc200, 14 Oct 2008 12:27 AM
From: United Kingdom
The problem of negociating identities in societies is real and significant. There are as many different opinions as there are people involved. Also much academic work over the last 50 years.
http://www.southernspaces.org/contents/2005/lacy/1a.htm
My opinion having worked in this field is that there starting to be more successful cultural negociation and this is evidenced by different cultural and racial groups living in some harmony in some countries. For eample large multi-cultural festivals.

http://www.thecarnival.tv/info/history1.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notting_Hill_Carnival
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Written by: abc200, 14 Oct 2008 12:31 AM
From: United Kingdom
But there is considerable concern that some cultural groups are under-achieving and that legislation, education etc. has implied standards that are in fact discriminatory. For example literature is taught in schools which is difficult for some cultures to relate to.
Yet a homeogeneous culture is a goal that few really want - identity remains important - and for a society to function accommodation of different cultures is necessary.
S.
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Written by: dreadlocks, 14 Oct 2008 12:38 AM
From: United States
goulet, you are the master of the non-sequitur. not because i am not a fan of the spaniards means i cannot like an ex-spanish colony. i would not live in Spain, where they throw bananas at black soccer players. besides, do you not find it a little presumptious, as a foreigner yourself, to ask me what i am doing here? i am here because i love the average dominican, who is no more a spaniard than the average south african is a dutchman.
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 14 Oct 2008 12:40 AM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
bugger off abc you wanker or we will force feed you bangers and mash until you explode....you guys are the ones that abandoned the BWI after you sucked every phennig out of them and left them with wigs and bad food ....you should go live on one of your ex sandbars instead of the Spanish Antilles
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Written by: abc200, 14 Oct 2008 12:42 AM
From: United Kingdom
The extent to which history of different cultures is taught in schools depends to some degree ot the extent that the culture is a live culture and the value laden problem of the effects of destroying the culture and forcing on people an alien culture( e.g. the problem or reservation schools for Native Americans devaluing the culture of the Nateive American).
More thought is now being directed in this area.
http://oncampus.richmond.edu/facu....001/E238-Caribbean_Literature.pdf
S.
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 14 Oct 2008 12:51 AM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
dread I live in the Colonial city 50 meters from Diegos house it was a city built by the Andalusians where I lived in Spain ...All of Colons voyages sailed from towns within 50 kilometres of my home in Spain ...I also lived in Old San Juan in PR it is as close as I can get I will live in Old Havana when the commies are gone.....Dutch South Africa that is laughable please Dread......you live in the Spanish Antilles punto and why do you deny your heritage and live outside your culture
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Written by: dreadlocks, 14 Oct 2008 12:55 AM
From: United States
what bad food did the british leave? GC, you know that the best food in this region comes from the BWI. nothing even comes close.
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Written by: abc200, 14 Oct 2008 12:56 AM
From: United Kingdom
It is expected that a more distinct carribean identity will emerge as the infuence of ALBA etc. increases. By the way I think the French also settled in the BWI. The US did not help liberate these colonies from the British - why not? An example of double standards.
S.
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 14 Oct 2008 1:09 AM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
the wanker mentions the french islands now there is some real bad attitude....but Dread sorry the food has the technique even St Marten the restaurants of Marigot are excellent the food of the French west indies is the best.... it is just the people who sux and my last name is french
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 14 Oct 2008 1:13 AM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
wanker the caribbean has many identities Spanish Antilles ...BWI ...FWI ....DWI and The Spanish Antilles will never be part of that alpabet soup called Caricom
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Written by: yumnuk3, 14 Oct 2008 1:18 AM
From: United States, New York City
Culture is relative. As a matter of physiology, all the various races of humanity are basically the same. Physical evolution has only changed us in small ways. Culture developed as a way for certain humans in certain regions of the world to connect. Because the evolution was the same, the people sharing the culture would carry the physical characteristics of everyone else that had "evolved" in the same way. But our capacity for learning, as well as breeding, connects the races until the only division is culture. Race is immaterial to culture. If you were to tell me that Ludacris is representative of black culture, I'd laugh in your face. He is a degenerate who happens to be black. Same for Eminem. He is a degenerate who happens to be white.

Unifying factors for races include a common language, common holidays, and a common government. What divides us is when the differences are hyped.
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Written by: dreadlocks, 14 Oct 2008 10:26 AM
From: United States
actually, GC, the Dominican Republic is a signatory to Caricom, and its status was ratified in 2004, if i am not mistaken.(maybe it was 2006, but Leonel signed the agreement) do some research before you make such statements. it does not improve your image to display ignorance with such certitude.
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 14 Oct 2008 1:23 PM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
they will have nothing to do with that bunch of losers ...it is a token and you know it ....the Spanish Antilles are outside that group of sand bars... they should stick together for the annual limbo contest
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Written by: dreadlocks, 14 Oct 2008 1:40 PM
From: United States
you are beyond ignorant, sad to say. do you know from where the DR plabs to source its natural gas? i understand your antipathy towards the eastern caribbean. you thought you could go to those islands and be lord and master over "the natives". they just did not suffer you gladly, like you expected they would, and you are forever mad at them. you probably got rebuffed by hoteliers when you tried to peddle swill liquor to the hotel industry. but hell, GC, it isn't them; its you! look at how many places you have tried to live in, and ended up going somewhere else. you need psychiatric intervention, because you have a debilitating personality disorder.
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Written by: Lautaro, 14 Oct 2008 1:46 PM
From: Brazil, near Copacabana
I think that the source of his contempt are the US Virgin Islands, dread. I haven't gone there (yet), but, from what I have heard and read about those islanders, they don't suffer foreigners lording over there gladly. I believe that, if the african american mainlanders had a half of the attitude of the USVI's, we would have heard about an armed rebellion on the US mainland by now.
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Written by: dreadlocks, 14 Oct 2008 2:06 PM
From: United States
you are correct about the Cruzans and other islanders in their impatience with types like GC. he went there at a bad time. most of the "sandbars" had just begun to settle into independence, trying to shake off the vestiges of colonial rule. some guys did not get it; they thought that they would be welcomed with open arms, to do whatever they pleased, because of what they looked like. the boys down island were not having it. so, GC had a rough ride, and will spend the rest of his pitiful existence forever angry at them, insulting and belittling them at every opportunity. but guess what ,GC? as much as you despise them, they despise you, and your fellow travellers, even more. it is not a color issue either; Dr Ralph Gonsalves, Prime Minister of St Vincent, is a good friend of mine, and he is a white man of portuguese extraction. no sir, it is an issue of attitude.
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Written by: dreadlocks, 14 Oct 2008 2:16 PM
From: United States
here is the deal, Mr Lautaro. euros and north americans find it easier to live in the DR than in english speaking countries, because of the communication barrier. they can sit in bars , get drunk, and sound off to their heart's content about the people. they can insult them to their faces, make innuendo and false accusations, and the people do not react the same way as the people who understand the language. i sit with gringos and hear them say the most vicious things about locals, in their presence. but it goes unnoticed, lost in language. if they said the same things about people from Grenada, for example, they would be skinned alive, because it would not be hidden in the vernacular. I am tired of seeing drunken gringos lose their possessions, and blame it on some "theiving dominican" if they did that in Jamaica, they would be looking squarely at a 9mm handgun! but they get away with it here, because the average guy does not understand english.
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 14 Oct 2008 2:31 PM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
if they did that where dread the worst of the worst island for criminality in the Caribbean pleeeeeze give us a break......the Spanish Antilles are not like those sandbars with their Caricom flunkies ...and dread you bullshitter I will give you the phone number of Derek Hodge my attorney and former Lt. Governor of the VIRGIN SLANDS and anybody else who will give you a character reference ....how about you ? let us hear your story come on I will give you an open book ....you are a bullshitter
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 14 Oct 2008 2:41 PM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
and if you want more references on other islands I will get them for you .....I know what I am doing here .....You are just doing your old shuck and jive and trying to get over.....this I know
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Written by: dreadlocks, 14 Oct 2008 3:07 PM
From: United States
you are just an old , decrepit colonial relic, looking for a final resting place; nothing more, nothing less. you have posted over 8000 times in this board, none of which makes any sense. you just have a need to be noticed. and you resent me, because, like a true 'sandbar' man, i do not suffer fools gladly. you thought you could come and take over the board, post your silliness, and bully and insult everyone into acquiescence. every thread begins with your opinion, as if DT cannot do without it. but , i am no longer angry at you. i read your postings, and see the feeble imaginings of a wasted old man, who can no longer put two ideas together; a rambling, incoherent old geezer, fumbling through his medicine chest, bumping into furniture, and cursing the world. hey man; we all get there sometime. stop recruiting the world into your land of downturn. some of us want to get to your stage of dementia without too much stress.
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 14 Oct 2008 4:10 PM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
caricom sand bars of which the USVI is not a member and PR and DR are observers meaning ....I will call you back in the mean time beat it .....who cares they can trade bananas and sand back and forth and go to each others limbo contests singing .....yellow bird up high in banana tree.....I load de banana boat all night long daylight come and me wanna go home.....dayo dayo....sing along dread
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Written by: dreadlocks, 14 Oct 2008 5:38 PM
From: United States
the old elephant, wandering off into the woods, looking for his eternal resting place. as he meanders through the underbrush and thicket, he takes down precious vegetation with him. poor, sad, old thing. lashing out till the very end. mad at the world, insulting all who will, or will not, listen. poor, pitiful goulet. it makes me tear up to read this pathetic man.
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Written by: abc200, 14 Oct 2008 5:39 PM
From: United Kingdom
Go and play Chopin and Wagner if that is what pleases you GC. The Carribean should have an Opera house and a grand concert hall to the best World standards - Maybe the US government can gift Puerto Rico.
S.
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 14 Oct 2008 6:29 PM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
wanker you have never been to my beloved Boricua except for a cavity search at the airport you were asked to get out and fast....Placido performs there fairly often and they have a very full cultural life not like the sandbars in Caricom where it is what kind of rum did you get hammered on last nite
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Written by: yumnuk3, 14 Oct 2008 6:50 PM
From: United States, New York City
In1971, President Richard Nixon declared Columbus Day
a federal public holiday, celebrated on the second Monday in October.
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Written by: yumnuk3, 14 Oct 2008 6:59 PM
From: United States, New York City
In 2008, ALBERT J declared Native Americans day
a public holiday, celebrated on the second Tuesday in October.
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Written by: dreadlocks, 14 Oct 2008 7:00 PM
From: United States
GC, might that be Placido Robles, one of your three card monte hustler friends from Times Square? for a moment there, i thought you were just name dropping, as you are so inclined to do.
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 14 Oct 2008 7:20 PM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
good old robles the robber just off 42nd street.....do you know why they call it 42nd street ?......Because that is exactly the amount of time you would ever want to spend on it 40 seconds street.....Dread remembers running down it many times the wind blowing through his hair the sound of ":Stop Thief "ringing in his ears oh those were the good old days
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Written by: yumnuk3, 14 Oct 2008 7:28 PM
From: United States, New York City
ladies and gentlemen and low lifes happy Native Americans day,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Gonna have a pow wow, oh, wow
Pass the peace pipe.
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Written by: abc200, 14 Oct 2008 11:32 PM
From: United Kingdom
Boricua another example of crass America segregation that persists to this day handing out the equivalent of second hand clothes to the poor and under-priviaged that American society deliberately produces. And of course the immoral and corrupt practices that are standard in the USA.
S.
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 15 Oct 2008 4:00 AM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
" that American society deliberately produces. And of course the immoral and corrupt practices that are standard in the USA." ........says holier than thou wanker embittered because he was deported for his unusual sexual practices with Dwarfs and various barnyard animals
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Written by: gouletcolonial, 15 Oct 2008 8:06 AM
From: United States Virgin Islands, St Thomas C' Amalie hotel 1829 at the Bar
I personally have expressed my distaste for censorship .....But how ironic is it that the worst person who steps on the personal freedoms and cheers about it.... of the people in the totalitarian countries of cuba where no freedom exists or Venezuela where they are rapidly dissappearing ...It is possible Belial was a paid stooge of these communist regimes who knows but there are people in the Gulag for trying to express their beliefs... I have free speech beliefs that are very strong ....Belial i am sorry to say may be getting a taste of the medicine his bosses dispense to all citizens who yearn to be free...he however will not have to live on bread and water for 10 years....save your tears for a worthy person ..... Belial is a stooge of tyrants
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Written by: dreadlocks, 15 Oct 2008 8:21 AM
From: United States
more meandering doggerel from the king of the absurd. i wish i could fathom what point he is trying to make, but, then again, maybe he is not trying to make one. rambling on for rambling's sake. time to check into the asylum, GC; your handlers await
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