Close Gallery
Zoom Picture

Caracas.– Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has called for the country's largest steel firm, majority owned by Argentina, to be expropriated.

Chavez has ordered the formation of a commission to take control of Ternium-Sidor, in which Argentina's Techint has a 60 percent stake, even as negotiations over compensation to the Argentine consortium continue.

This decree-law names a commission to take control of the company and put it at the service of the nation, the Republic and its workers," Chavez said in a speech late Wednesday in honor of May Day.

Venezuela's National Assembly on Tuesday declared the steel-maker useful to the nation, a prerequisite for expropriation under Venezuelan law.

However, negotiations between Venezuela's government and the Argentine consortium over a price to be paid for its shares are still under way, a source at Techint told the press.

"Negotiations are ongoing to set conditions for acquisition of the plant. The statement of public usefulness was made in parallel, but the negotiations are ongoing," the source said.

Chavez threatened to expropriate the steel maker if a deal was not reached promptly. He said Techint was demanding three to four billion dollars in compensation, while the Venezuelan government was offering 800 million dollars.

Venezuela's Vice President Ramon Carrizales had announced on April 9 that the country would nationalize Ternium-Sidor, after talks on a union contract broke down.

After 15 months of negotiations failed to bear fruit, Chavez asked Carrizales to meet with Ternium-Sidor management concerning a contract for almost 12,000 workers.

After the meeting Carrizales announced the steel concern would be put into state hands. "Sidor is going to be nationalized. (Carrizales) tried to get the company to understand the workers' concerns but it did not accept, and in the end, the nationalization was announced," Jose Rodriguez, president of the steelworkers union, explained by phone.

Share / Recommend this article: Digg thisDigg this del.icio.usdel.icio.us TechnoratiTechnorati YahooYahoo
COMMENTS
66 comment(s)
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: JimHarrington, 5 May 2008 10:42 AM
From: United States
What do you expect from a reincarnated Adolf Hitler in socialistic clothing.
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: TexasBill, 5 May 2008 10:48 AM
From: Dominican Republic
This but ONE MORE STEP by Chavez to totally NATIONALIZE the BASIC INDUSTRIES still in the hands of the PRIVATE SECTOR.
Little by little ALL the BASIC INDUSTRIES of the Venezuelan Economy will be under Government Ownership andcontrol, completing Chavez's agenda to turn Venezuela into a Communist Nation with the incumbent TOTALITARIAN STATE like that of the old Soviet Union.
When that happens, the individual in Venezuela wil be completely at the mercy of the Dictator Chavez who will have absolute control over every aspectr of pubic and private livelihood and action.

Poor Venezuelan People. They don't realize what a monster they have created.
What happens when the OIL runs out???

TB
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: time2rize, 5 May 2008 10:52 AM
From: Dominican Republic
reincarnated Adolf Hitler ?????????????

JimHarrington, Last time i check, he was not ordering ethnic cleansing, Unlike your President, currently in office.

besides, doent Argentina, owes Venezula big time................

This is Venezuela’s third purchase of Argentine bonds since Argentine President Nestor Kirchner told the paper that Venezuela was to buy $2.4 billion of Argentine debt in the coming months to help the country pay back debt early to the International Monetary Fund. Since the announcement, Venezuela has bought almost $1.1 billion in Argentine debt.

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/1617
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: JimHarrington, 5 May 2008 11:04 AM
From: United States
Hitler didn't order ethinc cleansing at the start of his regieme either.
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: gouletcolonial, 5 May 2008 11:15 AM
From: Canada
nutty hugo would not even get elected today....stores in Caracas are running out of products ...and the people know now he is trying to turn Venezuela into cuba....it is over for him ....Danny the molester as well{Danny the DIDDLER } maybe we will have graveside ceremonies for them as well......Bring your own toilet paper
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: richardalberto, 5 May 2008 11:41 AM
From: United States
Not only did Venzuela bail out Argentina from the IMB but it allowed it into econimic recovery. Also where would Dominican Republic we without Venezuela's oil subsidies. Would DR be able to go to Shell or Exxon for oil relief, I highly doubt it.
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: gouletcolonial, 5 May 2008 11:52 AM
From: Canada
what a guy Hugo a real humanitarian if we could only find someone like him to ruin our economy but we had better find oil first
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: Escott, 5 May 2008 11:52 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Sosua/Cabarete
The Dominican Republic pays the same as any other country. They just have the honor to be indebted for it instead of paying half the bill. So where this government of crooks gets to keep half of the proceeds and pay it out putting our grandchildren in debt for the rest of THEIR lives.

Thank you Venezuela!

Some people are so thick they can't see that this despot is doing nothing but aquiring good will through the good luck of having oil while Venezuelans SUFFER much and have nothing.

Castro is one of the richest people on earth and the people have rations of rice that doesn't sustain human life. Venezuela is going the same way.
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: gouletcolonial, 5 May 2008 11:56 AM
From: Canada
escott raul just allowed them to buy rice cookers for 6 months pay.... they are a sensation
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: time2rize, 5 May 2008 12:18 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Castro is one of the richest people on earth and the people have rations of rice that doesn't sustain human life. Venezuela is going the same way.
##############################3

So why doesn't your President, lift the embargo.
___________________________________________

Shops ration sales of rice as US buyers panic
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/apr/24/food.usa
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: time2rize, 5 May 2008 12:21 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Not only did Venzuela bail out Argentina from the IMB but it allowed it into econimic recovery. Also where would Dominican Republic we without Venezuela's oil subsidies. Would DR be able to go to Shell or Exxon for oil relief, I highly doubt it.
##########################
richardalberto,

That's why i cannot understand, why Gas, is so expensive in DR. Someone is pocketing the savings.
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: gouletcolonial, 5 May 2008 12:27 PM
From: Canada
why doesnt fidel release the political prisoners and have a real election......because it is a totalitarian state .....why do all the people defect? because they believe in communism they really do ...they just wanted to own a rice cooker
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: Edward, 5 May 2008 12:31 PM
From: United States, Leominster, Massachusetts
I like some of his ideas, but sometimes he goes to far!!!
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: time2rize, 5 May 2008 12:43 PM
From: Dominican Republic
why doesnt fidel release the political prisoners
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

did he not do that in the 80's? did you not watch Scarface? lol

___________________________________________

have a real election
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Oh im sure the U.S. will love that, and some how intervene. The last two U.S. elections, perfect example of Deomcracy. LMAO
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: jemesouviens1804, 5 May 2008 12:52 PM
From: United States, Spring Valley, NY
I dont blame Chavez at all for wanting to nationalize the steel plant......Last time I checked some super-power forced Haiti to privitize some of its state-owned companies in order to allow foreign companies(from the Super-Power's nation) to come in to take over the company and steal the last bit of money the nation was getting...That my friends is how you get rich. Pay the people 2 dollars a day, and keep the rest of the cash for you and your homies. Democracy at its best.
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: gouletcolonial, 5 May 2008 12:54 PM
From: Canada
the super powers are just lining up to get their hands on all the treasures of Haiti
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: time2rize, 5 May 2008 1:10 PM
From: Dominican Republic
the super powers are just lining up to get their hands on all the treasures of Haiti
####################3

Do you mean the Natural Resources ?

Haiti — Natural Resources: Bauxite, copper, calcium carbonate, gold, marble

https://www.cia.gov/library/publi..../the-world-factbook/print/ha.html
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: gouletcolonial, 5 May 2008 1:17 PM
From: Canada
gold nuggets as big as your fist I suppose.....and just what we need more bauxite with aluminum plants closing left and right......and the marble is second rate and not for export so what have you got left .........................................PEOPLE.....HUMAN BEINGS
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: Belial, 5 May 2008 1:24 PM
From: United States, Texas
p. 1

Sidor company is the largest steelmaker in Latin America/ Caribbean, a major means of production.

The government started the company and grew it up to 1997, when the comprador bourgeoisie sold the company to mostly foreign capitalists. In 1997, an Argentine group called Ternium bought 60% of the shares for $1.2 billion after the government forgave part of certain debts the Sidor owed the state.

Argentine bourgeois quickly showed their mastery "capitalist efficiency," they put 9,000 of the 14,000 workers on "contract," cutting wages, benefits, pensions, health, vacations, safety, etc. At the same time, executive compensation skyrocketed with top managers pulling in over a million dollars annually in salaries for introducing "capitalist efficiency."

The bourgeois swine and capitalist slime throughout the world rejoiced over the post-1997 outbreak of "capitalist efficiency" at Sidor, shouting "More efficiency, please, more efficiency."

con't
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: Abril65, 5 May 2008 1:25 PM
From: United States
Aside from the garbage that most of these right-wing idiots are spitting out the reality is that the TERNIUM-SIDOR company had this coming and for a good reason. Thousands of workers of SIDOR started to strike over wages (which was summed up by a 13-month struggle), which SIDOR offered a extremely lower "increase" than their demands, after SIDOR had their lackeys in the National Guard the workers were brutally repressed without no form of mediation. The workers were exploited and worked in conditions that certainly needed some awareness.

The Venezuelan state was going to compensate SIDOR, but SIDOR decided to ask for a very high price which passed 3 billion dollars. Throughout the period of SIDOR having a small share in the company it tried to sabotage production under workers' control.
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: time2rize, 5 May 2008 1:28 PM
From: Dominican Republic
.PEOPLE.....HUMAN BEINGS

LOL maybe you never know. I have no idea what the hell, is going on over there.
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: time2rize, 5 May 2008 1:31 PM
From: Dominican Republic
but DR seems to be doing good in the Natural Resources Dept, i wonder who is the owners of these companies?

Natural resources: nickel, bauxite, gold, silver. Exports: $6.881 billion f.o.b. (2007 est.): ferronickel, sugar, gold, silver, coffee, cocoa, tobacco, meats, consumer goods
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: Abril65, 5 May 2008 1:33 PM
From: United States
time2rize, do you have any kind of Instant Messenger such as AIM or Yahoo? I would like to speak with you regarding D.R.
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: gouletcolonial, 5 May 2008 1:37 PM
From: Canada
belial.....splat..........WHO CARES
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: time2rize, 5 May 2008 1:39 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Abril65

Yes i do, but let me create another yahoo account give me a couple of minutes, and i will post it up.
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: Belial, 5 May 2008 1:45 PM
From: United States, Texas
p. 2

The workers at Sidor went for a mixed bag of labor leaders -- revolutionary, left sectarian, social democrat, "economist," right opportunists, etc. But mostly, this group of union leaders opposed and fought for several years "capitalist efficiency" that the Ternium group sought to introduce at Sidor, especially wage cuts.

This year, the growing proletarian state stepped in and took back the company the bourgeois state started and grew until 1997 when bourgeois state in Venezuela gave the company away to foreign capitalists.

The world proletariat, confident the Venezuelan workers can run the Sidor company profitably and equitably, congratulates Venezuelan workers on another big victory won over the foul bourgeoisie. The world proletariat humbly reminds the Venezuelan workers about the animal and bestial nature of the mass of the imperialists, especially the US sector, and the Venezuelan capitalists. Lenin says "A revolution that cannot defend itself is worthless."
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: Belial, 5 May 2008 1:48 PM
From: United States, Texas
"belial.....splat..........WHO CARES"

0000

GC, you slimy, greasy, and lying bag of scum, for once... just for once ... stick to the topic in the article published by DT above, rather than taking flight cowardly into capricious irrelevancy to hide your abysmal ignorance of what's being discussed.

Yes, you filthy coward don't take flight into capricious irrelevancy.


Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: Abril65, 5 May 2008 2:07 PM
From: United States
Time2rize you did it already?
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: time2rize, 5 May 2008 2:13 PM
From: Dominican Republic
abril 65
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: UnderCover, 5 May 2008 2:18 PM
From: United States
Why is it that everytime he opens his mouth, nothing positive comes out?

OH!!! , and for the back lashers....Commies & Capitalist...I'am not political too anyone or any party or group or church.

I'am just passing by...have a nice day.
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: JRodriguez, 5 May 2008 3:38 PM
From: United States
I realy don't see what the big deal is he's bringing jobs and money back to his country
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: Belial, 5 May 2008 4:23 PM
From: United States, Texas
"OH!!! , and for the back lashers....Commies & Capitalist...I'am not political too anyone or any party or group or church."

oooo

Come on, please, for God's sake!

You can't compare Commies and Cappies, for cappies are filthy animals.
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: zooma, 5 May 2008 4:37 PM
From: United States
What Chavez lacks is the foresight to realize that foreign investors will not commit their capital to Venezuela as a result of his agenda of nationalization. This suggests that Investors already there will opt pull up stakes and take their losses vs a nationalization of their enterprises at a lowball price offered by the regime. Potential investors will search elsewhere. Foreign creditors will be calling in notes or demanding higher rates on outstanding notes as a result of fears of an unstable business climate. As things are now Venezuela is supporting its social programs through revenues derived from petroleum sales and foreign investment. However, to nationalize major industries and then subsequently to support them under total Venezuelan control and financial aid will siphon away funding from successful social programs. Chavez needs to sit back and take a long look at the whole picture for the good of his countrymen.
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: UnderCover, 5 May 2008 4:41 PM
From: United States
Belial, (back lasher)

......."Come on, please, for God's sake!"......thats the only part you got right.

Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: TexasBill, 5 May 2008 4:45 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Belial;

According to your definition of "Capitalism" and my definition of "Communism", I beg to remind you that the two phrases (definitions) are opposite sides of the same coin.

Chew on that for awhile.

TB
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: Belial, 5 May 2008 6:34 PM
From: United States, Texas
DT is becoming ... rather rapidly and surprisingly ... something of the top English-language discussion site for the Caribbean and Latin American affairs, blowing out the Miami Herald ( hereinafter "MH") which for decades enjoyed this honor undeservingly without effort.

For decades, MH suffered from a narrow-minded "Cuban" fixation ( more correctly, a Cuban reactionary bourgeois obsession), ignoring most of Latin America and Caribbean.

After the departure of Jim DeFede, one of the few ... or only ... MH journalists with ethics (as well as a rare MH reporter not on the payroll of the NED, TV/Radio Marti, USIA, or USAID), the idea grew fashionable that the views of the political Left ... the majority of the US people ... were unwelcome at the MH.

DT hasn't taken a stance on ideological openness, but it seems clear the DT detests exclusive concentration on vile, foul, despicable, contemptible, vicious, and fecal GOP, conservative, and reactionary hogwash
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: TexasBill, 5 May 2008 7:00 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Belial;
The really necessary thing that you need to do is WASH YOUR FOUL MOUTH OUT WITH SULPHURIC ACID.
You are undoubtedly the most foul-mouthed person anywhere on this beknighted planet.
You would be much better received if you would USE DECENT LANGUAGE instead of the fecal emmisions we see everytime you post.
It's getting TIRESOME and it ain't a bit cute nor smart.
Clean up your act.

TB
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: gouletcolonial, 5 May 2008 7:52 PM
From: Canada
Belial....splat.......NOOOOBODY
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: gouletcolonial, 5 May 2008 10:42 PM
From: Canada
"Raul Castro Is Bringing Hope & DVD Players and Rice Cookers To The Average Cuban...Or Those Who Can Afford them...Which Is No One" thank you Raul you are to kind
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: gouletcolonial, 6 May 2008 7:20 AM
From: Canada
like rats and pigeons
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: FranktheTank, 6 May 2008 7:20 AM
From: United Kingdom
Are the commies multiplying ?
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: gouletcolonial, 6 May 2008 7:33 AM
From: Canada
you got that right.....like vermin ,rats and pigeons
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: cpone, 6 May 2008 1:32 PM
From: United States
Damn its amazing to see idiots actually supporting Chazez, yet I'll bet any amount of money that if the DR or the US did what Chavez is doing they would be protesting in the streets.

The level of stupidity reaches new levels in here.
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: CarlosFranco, 6 May 2008 1:35 PM
From: United States

Even though i dislike the massive take over of industries, and his loud foul mouth, Chavez isn't completly wrong... His socialist revolution has some good promises...

Just like the communist ... They weren't completely wrong either.
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: cpone, 6 May 2008 1:39 PM
From: United States
Funny how communist and socialist movements all need capitalism to strive.lol.
How else do you think Chavez is able to fuel his socialist movement? You think supply and demand are socialist models? You think global commodity markets are communist models? HA!

Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: gouletcolonial, 6 May 2008 2:05 PM
From: Canada
belial .....splat
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: UnderCover, 6 May 2008 4:37 PM
From: United States
cpone.....

Don't forget the "Iran Connection" Chavez has..........they need each other like you wouldn't imagine.

You heard it here first.
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: TexasBill, 6 May 2008 5:17 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Carlos Franco;
It isn't the "Promise" of Socialism and Communism that turn me off, but rather the manner in which both these creations treat the individuals within their grasp.
If you have read Lenin, Marks, Helgel, Robspierre, Stalin and all the other proponents of "Political Terriorism", you would draw the same conclusions.
It is a BASIC TENENT of Communism to totally eliminate that element of society that does not agree with them. The Russian Revolution of 1917 was a holocost of murder of millions of business owners, aristocracy, scientist; EVERYONE who represented even an inkling of individuality of effort within society.
The French Revolution, with all it's high sounding rhetoric was a model of political terrorism led by Robspierre and during which there were "witchhunts for both real and imagined "enemies of the State". It was used to eliminate personal enemies, any person speaking against it's methods, and many innocent persons.
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: TexasBill, 6 May 2008 5:28 PM
From: Dominican Republic
These same methods have been practiced today in Latin American Countries, backed by Cuba, Venezuela and Ecuador through their direct financial and support through the supplying of arms and safe haven.
The Islamic Terrorists have practiced these methods of terrorism to inimidate an control segments of religious sects in theMiddle East and have been supproted by Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iran through both financial and military equipment contributions. Organizations such a Al Queida, Hezbollah, Hamas and theTalliban use terrorism to intimidate and eliminate their opponents worldwide.
From a political position, terrorism has been used throughout the ages as a method of individual and national intimidation by one segment of society against another.
The two elements of Communism and the Islamic Jihad are themost recent users of this method.
That's what History teaches us and to ignore it is to lay down and let them 'have at us" without a whimper in opposition.
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: TexasBill, 6 May 2008 5:37 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I would remind all to read between the lines of those postings by Belial and his ilk with their foul and degrading rhetoric against those whom they perceive as their enemies. What would you expect from people like them should they ever gain power over you through revolution.
Absolutely no mercy, no fairness under law, nothing but intimidation andtotal elimination of those who opose them or their agenda.
Their upstanding rhetoric about human rights, division of wealth, etc., etc., would pale rapidly once they were in power. Their control over the factors of production and the distributive shares would be directed to the top level of government and it's synchopants, leaving themasses worse off than before with no recourse. They would murder all who oppose them and their "rule of the proleteriat" (who would be themselves exclusively).

You decide for yourself, but if you think about it and read History for the trends that are there, you'll agree in the long run.

TB
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: Belial, 6 May 2008 6:32 PM
From: United States, Texas
"I would remind all to read between the lines of those postings by Belial and his ilk with their foul and degrading rhetoric against those whom they perceive as their enemies."

oooo

TB and GC have both sunk to the very depth of the pit of bourgeois ugliness.

Both being too ignorant and limitlessly stupid to discuss Sidor, so they take refuge in a plethora of irrelevancies.

Here TB, the more cunning of the two degenerates, pretends to possess a modicum of decency, an obvious impossibility, a pretense which makes him even more contemptible.

These two slobbering and mange running dogs of imperialism are dismayed by the huge and irreversible victory of the Venezuelan proletariat at Sidor over the sniveling, cheating, and lying industrial sector of the bourgeoisie, both domestic and foreign.
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: time2rize, 6 May 2008 11:20 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Texas bill
Organizations such a Al Queida, Hezbollah, Hamas and theTalliban use terrorism to intimidate and eliminate their opponents worldwide.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Al-Qaeda terror organization was established by the C.I.A in the 1980s. Al-Qaeda is nothing but a conveniently "Islamic" front which enables the C.I.A. to commit crimes in the name of Muslims. It is well known that the Mujahadeen terrorists of Afghanistan were organized, trained and funded by the C.I.A. using the Pakistani ISI as a "cut-out" in order to lure the Soviet Army into Afghanistan at the end of 1979.

http://prisonplanet.tv/articles/june2004/062504manufacturedfront.htm


Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: gouletcolonial, 6 May 2008 11:24 PM
From: Canada
are you high? are smoking dope?or are you just wacko?
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: TexasBill, 7 May 2008 9:41 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Isn't it odd that every time either Belial, time2rize andothers of their ilk post a reference, it is from extremely leftist rags whose reputation is for twisting facts to their own agenda.
The US did arm and train the Taliban and used them very effectively against the Soviet Union, whose agenda was to support an Afganistan government which was Pro-communist.
The aftermath of that conflict resulted in the fracturing of the forces within Afganistan into sectional "War-Lord" enclaves which had no intention of any cohesion with which to form a unified nation.
The overall result was the elimination of the Soviet threat, but also the demise of Western influence in the area. At this point, Osama Ben Laden stepped in with his Al Quieda Islamic Jihad organization and continued against the Western-backed political organization which won the elections held. The political situation has remained fluid since then with some of the local war-lords joining with Taliban and Al Quieda.
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: TexasBill, 7 May 2008 9:48 AM
From: Dominican Republic
While there was a brief cesession of hostilities, Taliban and Al Quieda gained the financial and military supply support of Iran and other segments of the Mid-East. his has resulted in the resurgence of hostilities we are seeing today.
Make no bones about it, the Islamic Jihad is here to stay as long as countries like Syria, Iran and Saudi Arabia continue to support it through their covert actions of destabilization.
It all boils down to a struggle for control and power by the politiical actors in the area through fomenting unrest and intimidation through terrorist actions.
The great pity of all this is the murder of thousands of non-combatants through sacrificial body bombs and the like.
The underlying question of all this is do we as human beings wish to support such activities and agendas from those who care not for human life and hold it cheaply.

TB


Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: CarlosFranco, 7 May 2008 9:57 AM
From: United States

TexasBill: I hear you brother... but you must realize that the "totalitarian" that made up past communist states was a combination of both marxism and lenism together... Drop the Lenism or the "totalitarian" aspect of the regime and it could be a great experiment, no one has yet to prove marx and marx alone, to be wrong... Socialist and communist theories are not without virtues. How' bout a communist with an elected body...doesn't sound bad to me?

cpone: "Funny how communist and socialist movements all need capitalism to strive" even communist have needs CPONE... Even communist have children, Even communist have greed.

Ultimately i am not a communist, but the inhereted weakness of capitalism is that "the system needs poor people in order to be maintained and i don't like that...
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: TexasBill, 7 May 2008 10:34 AM
From: Dominican Republic
CarlosFranco;
I'll agree that Socialism and Communism alike do have a great appeal to those who do not have the intellectual capability to become managers, are not leaders, know only labor of the body, but at the same time make up a majority of the population of the world.
I see the near-twins of Socialism and Communism as being the exploiters of ignorance and low self esteem.
History teaches us that there has always been "haves" and "have-nots" in society. That is a given. There are some in society who are equipped to lead through physical power and there are some who are equipped to lead through intellect and charisma.
The former led by intimidation and brute force was used to maintain their power over the population. The latter with logic and comprehension of the needs of their subjects and by fulfilling those needs as often as possible. These are the extremes in history since most governments have fallen somewhere in between.
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: TexasBill, 7 May 2008 10:50 AM
From: Dominican Republic
There are many examples of successful and unseccessful governments.
But, we are not addressing governments, per se, but rather, the economic systems that USUALLY acompany a particular economic system.
Communism REQIRIES the ABSOLUTE control of the "factors of production", Land, Labor, Capital and Management. These factors MUST be owned and rigidly controlled by Government in order for the system to be viable and successful in the arena. As such, the rigid control must be based on a highly disciplined society which collectively must agree absolutely with the governing body andbe subject to the dictates of that body. Desention is not and cannot be tolerated in such a system. In other words, individual thought and effort must be subjigated to the dictates of the governing body. Thus the term "dictatorship of the proliteriat" is realagated to a moot position since such a "dictatorship" cannot exist without a referendum by the FULL population on each and every decision necessary.
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: gouletcolonial, 7 May 2008 11:07 AM
From: Canada
Thanks again Bill for putting in words these things for people who look to castro and nutty hugo for their salvation........Capitalism is man exploiting man Communism is the exact opposite only worse.......much much worse
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: gouletcolonial, 7 May 2008 11:09 AM
From: Canada
the above explanation is facile but oh so true we now await Belial and his explanation of the workers paradise
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: TexasBill, 7 May 2008 11:09 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Therefore, BY DEFINITION, Communism is an IMPOSTER which has a promise for a "better life" which is EMPTY of fulfillment. It is fallacious reasoning at best because in direct opposition of the very nature of the hunam animal.
In Economic parlance, each of the"factors of production" has a "distributive share".
Land receives it's Rent, Labor receives it's Wages, Capital receives it's Interest and Management receives it's Profits.
Under Communism, ALL of these "distributive shares" are either retained , or are rigidly controlled by the governing body ( the dictatorship of the proleteriat) which has sole authority to decide what and how much is actually distributed. Individuals within the society (the proleteriat) have no input as to how these shares are distributed. An example would be a man with wife and 15 children who is a ditch digger would receive more than a professor of engineering who is single. Remuneration according to the need and not according to the contribution.
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: TexasBill, 7 May 2008 11:21 AM
From: Dominican Republic
We must ask thequestion, "What is the incentive for trying to occupy a higher level of accomplishment if the remuneration for that accomplishment is much less than a lower level of accomplishment"? Not everyone is an altruist who will work for a society simply because they waant to "be" a particular technician or professional.
I am convinced that Comminism and it's near-twin, Socialism, areaboth flawed philosophy because each tends to destroy incentive and the individual ambition which has historically driven mankind to higher levels of accomplishment in all societies that have existed to date.
All this is not to say that some degree of regulation over the economic and financial impetus of greedy individuals is not to be tollerated, but that the system of Capitalism is still the avenue of choice for creating economic and financial stability andfor maintaining an open avenue for financial independence for anyone astute enough to take advantage of an opportunity.

TB
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: texasshoe, 8 May 2008 12:33 PM
From: United States, Houston
To all,
I lived and worked in Venezuela for close to 5 years and was there when Chavez was sworn in and when he was overthrown for the 2 day period. There are some issues with Sidor and the country as a whole that I think you do not understand or have not been informed of. All (100%) of the petroleum industry and the steel industry are controlled by unions, very powerful unions. The Ley Organica de Trabajo is geared to the employees and the companies have very few rights. No one (workers) trusts the company that they work for. A presidential decree 3 years ago made it AGAINST THE LAW to FIRE or LAYOFF an employee. WHo cares that you can not pay them, no one is buying your goods or that you can not make a profit, it does not matter. The economy is in shambles unemployment is sky high and SIDOR wanted to eliminate the staff that by Law they can not let go. The highest union wage paid in the country is not enough to live on because inflation is out of control cont>>>>>
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: texasshoe, 8 May 2008 12:41 PM
From: United States, Houston
the price of a basic set of goods, flour, coffee, rice, pasta etc. cost the average worker there 70% of his income if you can find it for sale. When I left the country and moved back to the U.S. I could go the the store and buy for my wife and child $150.00 worth of goods and it would take 2 trips from the car to the apartment on my last visit in October of 2007 the same $150.00 was six bags with no meat or fish. Thank goodness for oil, he is supporting Hondouras, Boliva, Cuba, Argentina, dealing with Iran and Lybia while the population of Venezuela suffers. It took some time (10 years) and the pueblo voted no in the last election and handed him his first defeat at the polls, so like a good little dictator he is now ruling by decree and taking what is not his for the national good! Before you speak on such matters, please visit there to see for yourself. Techint paid a tremendous amount for SIDOR and he is offering compensation of less than a quarter because it is used!!!!
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: TexasBill, 8 May 2008 12:50 PM
From: Dominican Republic
texasshoe;
A very good example of "socialism/communism" at work.
Very seldom are the "rights" of owners taken into consideration when such a government promulgates laws which are directed solely to the benefit of the worker.
I'm not against Unions, per se, but am against excessive demands of Labor simply because they have the power to make those demands stick.
This is the primary causative factor of the gross "outsourcing" of US jobs to foreign countries and the moving of entire factories to foreign lands, yet Labor Unions fail to address that in the continuing rhetoric issued forth by Union Leaders and their demands for more and more "rights" of workers. The poor worker is not sufficiently grounded in economics nor finance to recognize such fallacious reasoning when addressed by their leaders. Union leadership is far cry from those of the early days of the labor movement when they were one of the workers themselves.
The movement has been taken over by greedy individuals.

TB
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: UnderCover, 8 May 2008 2:39 PM
From: United States
Dose anybody here have a job.......I'am getting tire of scrolling up & down on the screen. If you need to talk...................use the phone or messenger.

The news report is getting twisted in all directions........... Focus - Focus - Focus :)
Post Your Comment | Not a member? Create your account | Lost your password?
Write your opinion here. Please keep your comment relevant to this article. Please note that any comments which contain offensive language or discriminatory expressions may be edited/removed.
You must log in to post a comment:
Username Password